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37 minutes ago, dmedin said:

A better question is 'Why on earth do retail punters keep doing this to themselves', given that they are inveterate losers.  😲

because if they get good enough they'll be promoted to the A book 🎖️

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Right I see what you're saying, so even though no stocks are being bought or sold, all the positions are being settled 'in house' as it were - ie you cant go long on something unless there are sufficient people going short purely with IG accounts. That makes sense. 

They would still make money from people losing though as I'm sure more money is lost than gained over time. I don't have a problem with their model at all, interesting how it all works. 

haha, interesting your take on Ross Cameron as well, very different to mine as you can probably imagine ;) 

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32 minutes ago, larrytradingltd said:

They would still make money from people losing though as I'm sure more money is lost than gained over time. I don't have a problem with their model at all, interesting how it all works. 

the shorts and longs trade size is matched, doesn't matter who to, any excess is hedged but if IG can't get that from the market neither could you so your order is just rejected.

if you look through the warrior challenge thread in the link in the previous post I think between the 2 of them they managed to blow 3 or 4 accounts before giving up on ross cameron's trading strategy.

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Not to be pedantic but it does matter who the longs and shorts are matched to as they have to be matched by IG accounts. Which is why stocks are often available to long and short on other brokers but unavailable on IG, especially those small caps stocks. (the whole reason for this thread) 

 

I know, I'm not surprised about people blowing up accounts but to be fair to Ross he plainly states on multiple occasions not to just blindly try and follow his strategy. he teaches good stuff though, you can learn a lot from him, I personally wouldn't buy his full course but it's not a scam. 

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IG aren't getting the shares from the market, that's the whole point. They're just purchasing the data. 

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I think that IG definately 'make' when traders lose. I mean why hedge all 'excess' trades if you the broker (IG) know that the majority of people lose - it does not make sense. As caseynotes says they may split the traders into book A & B. But again why hedge people you KNOW will lose ? Yes, that would decrease risk but lose substantial profits. IG are far too profitable to make  money from just the spread - to me it sounds ridiculous. Their statement someone highlighted in this thread is highly ambiguous. If 10 people place trades and 9 lose and they risk say £100 each - where does the £900 in losses actually go ? CN seems to be saying hedged in the underlying market....I say it stays with IG all along in basically 'Bank of IG' - hedged only when their is significant excess in 1 direction or when major 'players' are staking bets imho. 

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2 hours ago, OSCARDAX said:

If 10 people place trades and 9 lose and they risk say £100 each - where does the £900 in losses actually go ?

Er ... it goes to the accounts of the 1 in 10 of traders who win.

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3 hours ago, larrytradingltd said:

to be fair to Ross

My scammer alarm bells went off the first time I saw him.

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3 hours ago, dmedin said:

Er ... it goes to the accounts of the 1 in 10 of traders who win.

what if that one trader only wins £50?

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2 hours ago, dmedin said:

My scammer alarm bells went off the first time I saw him.

you need to readjust your scammer settings ;) 

Honestly though I always find it weird when people take to him like that, I always think he comes across as pretty honest, goes out of his way to get the accounts independently verified etc and you can clearly see he knows what he's talking about

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9 hours ago, larrytradingltd said:

he comes across as pretty honest

hmmm, the problem people have is why would anyone spend so much of their time and money cultivating their subscription service? The reason of course is that subscriptions can pay a lot more than trading, especially trading small cap gappers.

I know of a UK based trader who mentors and has a subscription service who is making £70k a month, he has a waiting list of hundreds, people are begging him to sign them up. Ross Cameron is international and far, far more well known than this UK guy.

coming across as looking 'pretty honest' is in the scammers job description, these setups are often organised and orchestrated by a team of backers and frontmen, fake documents are no problem and the profit potential is huge, and best of all is that the financial regulators don't care. 

 

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2 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

I know of a UK based trader who mentors and has a subscription service who is making £70k a month, he has a waiting list of hundreds, people are begging him to sign them up.

Is he really a 'trader' ...

Selling stuff on the side seems ubiquitous and tends to lend itself to the idea that nobody can trade for a living with their own money.

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Just now, dmedin said:

Is he really a 'trader' ...

Selling stuff on the side seems ubiquitous and tends to lend itself to the idea that nobody can trade for a living with their own money.

the 70k a month is from the mentoring and subscriptions alone which takes up most of their time these days.

doesn't lend itself to any conclusion that nobody can make money trading, that's just your own personal experience. by the way, how are the stats on your latest strategy? don't have any ... thought so.

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20 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

doesn't lend itself to any conclusion

Of course it does.

 

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5 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

hmmm, the problem people have is why would anyone spend so much of their time and money cultivating their subscription service? The reason of course is that subscriptions can pay a lot more than trading, especially trading small cap gappers.

I know of a UK based trader who mentors and has a subscription service who is making £70k a month, he has a waiting list of hundreds, people are begging him to sign them up. Ross Cameron is international and far, far more well known than this UK guy.

coming across as looking 'pretty honest' is in the scammers job description, these setups are often organised and orchestrated by a team of backers and frontmen, fake documents are no problem and the profit potential is huge, and best of all is that the financial regulators don't care. 

 

Well it's up to you to draw your own conclusions I guess, he live streams his trading every day, has run a successful chat room and teaching program for years with many successful students. True he makes a lot of money from it but then he's a good teacher and has a steady stream of people willing to pay to be taught. 

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A lot of traders want to teach as it offers a steady income which trading doesnt. Doesnt mean all of them are scammers, some people just enjoy the community and teaching aspect of it, yes they earn good money from it but they give good value also. The Chart Guys are great for TA, lots of great free stuff also you dont have to sign up for. SMB capital as well, you cant say they're scammers surely ;) 

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4 minutes ago, larrytradingltd said:

A lot of traders want to teach as it offers a steady income which trading doesnt

I fully accept that.  Trouble is, if you can turn $15,000 into $5 million through trading then why do you want to hustle and sell training courses?  You must be an exceptionally greedy individual if $5 million isn't 'enough' ... and if you can't make money from trading/investing $5 million then you must be an idiot ... hmm.

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1 minute ago, larrytradingltd said:

A lot of traders want to teach as it offers a steady income which trading doesnt. Doesnt mean all of them are scammers, some people just enjoy the community and teaching aspect of it, yes they earn good money from it but they give good value also. The Chart Guys are great for TA, lots of great free stuff also you dont have to sign up for. SMB capital as well, you cant say they're scammers surely ;) 

loads of people post free stuff online and SMB are a new york prop firm but those like ross are different, his subscription business is massive and completely unregulated, if the guy I know of is making £70k a month ross and his backers are making 10 times that, the trading is a show, everything he does is aimed at pulling in new subscribers not trading.

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30 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

loads of people post free stuff online and SMB are a new york prop firm but those like ross are different, his subscription business is massive and completely unregulated, if the guy I know of is making £70k a month ross and his backers are making 10 times that, the trading is a show, everything he does is aimed at pulling in new subscribers not trading.

Dunno, if he's making £70k a MONTH he doesn't really need to make any more money.  And he won't have the time to sit and scalp on charts anyway.

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19 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

loads of people post free stuff online and SMB are a new york prop firm but those like ross are different, his subscription business is massive and completely unregulated, if the guy I know of is making £70k a month ross and his backers are making 10 times that, the trading is a show, everything he does is aimed at pulling in new subscribers not trading.

Well I mean he trades everyday and is extremely successful, each to their own I guess but I think he's doing a great thing. I've personally learnt a hell of a lot just from watching him trade and his thousands of hours of free lessons and content up on youtube. Same with Mike Bellafiore and SMB, they're primarily a prop firm but their education is fantastic, they have a real passion for teaching and do it incredibly well imo. Some people just want to pass that knowledge on. 

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I dont know what you can say is a scam about it really, if you dont feel like the content works for you thats fair enough but that's the same with every education provider out there - smb, live traders, warrior traders, the chart guys, ezeetrader, real life trading. 

They all have their different approach to it but that's what you get with teachers right? I'd say there's good value in all their content for the right person, I've learnt a lot from all of those. 

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3 minutes ago, larrytradingltd said:

Well I mean he trades everyday and is extremely successful, each to their own I guess but I think he's doing a great thing. I've personally learnt a hell of a lot just from watching him trade and his thousands of hours of free lessons and content up on youtube. Same with Mike Bellafiore and SMB, they're primarily a prop firm but their education is fantastic, they have a real passion for teaching and do it incredibly well imo. Some people just want to pass that knowledge on. 

I've posted a lot of SMB videos on this forum in the past, they are, as you say, excellent, as are many others where you are able to take those lessons and incorporate them. I've not heard of anyone doing the same from Ross's work (leaving aside the references on his site). Certainly the 2 guys on the forum here could not do it after around 9 months and multiple account blow ups. I also know of some who have used the chatroom say it's impossible to keep up, he would shout out a trade 'I'm in' but by the time they got to it he was already out. They just gave up as well.

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Ah right, yeah I'm a big fan of the smb stuff, definitely down the more academic end of the spectrum but it's great. I think if I did buy one course it would be their full one. I can't afford any of them though so my approach is to pick around and try and fill all the gaps with all of their free content, which seems to be working out ok at the moment. 

I don't know, with Ross I've seen him state a lot of times on his videos specifically not to follow his strategy, especially if you're a new trader as it is really quick, pretty aggressive with his entries and you're just not going to follow it. I know his course aims to teach the full range and background in trading including crypto, large cap etc and there are other people involved in warrior trading that teach, not just him. I feel for people who have blown up an account but I have heard him say countless times not to blindly copy his trades and also to paper trade until you can prove you're profitable.  

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17 minutes ago, larrytradingltd said:

Ah right, yeah I'm a big fan of the smb stuff, definitely down the more academic end of the spectrum but it's great. I think if I did buy one course it would be their full one. I can't afford any of them though so my approach is to pick around and try and fill all the gaps with all of their free content, which seems to be working out ok at the moment. 

sounds like a reasonable approach, look as widely as possible and take on board what fits and suits.

The guys here on the forum trying to emulate Ross ran into some big problems, Ross was using a DMA platform hooked up to the exchange by a super fast and expensive connection, he was paying hundreds a day while the boys here were using the free broker supplied toolkit as well as trading on a completely different market, never even looked like working. 

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Yeah, it's early days but seems to be going ok so far, fingers crossed...

I'm not surprised to be honest, but it does sound like they went against a lot of the stuff that he says 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Caseynotes said:

sounds like a reasonable approach, look as widely as possible and take on board what fits and suits.

The guys here on the forum trying to emulate Ross ran into some big problems, Ross was using a DMA platform hooked up to the exchange by a super fast and expensive connection, he was paying hundreds a day while the boys here were using the free broker supplied toolkit as well as trading on a completely different market, never even looked like working. 

Are you suggesting IG's web platform for spreadbetting is naff and not used by professionals to make real money dealing in real markets :D:D:D:D

Edited by dmedin

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2 hours ago, larrytradingltd said:

with Ross I've seen him state a lot of times on his videos specifically not to follow his strategy, especially if you're a new trader as it is really quick, pretty aggressive with his entries and you're just not going to follow it.

That's called 'getting f&ked'.

He f*cks you over and over again until you bleed.

You might as well pin your hopes on a lottery ticket.

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