Manipulation of Market Trade Prices to Induce Stops!

[Deano85]

Stacking the Deck to Induce Losses!

Dear IG Support,

Can you explain how when I post a Spread Bet Trade, especially during quiet trading times the instrument price suddenly veers towards and triggers my stop loss?

This is more than a co-incidence and is not complaint or sour grapes at losses!! The time and pics of graphs show an immediate opposite swing when placing a trade?

I have tested this at different times of the day especially evident with steady state or quiet times and have pictures of the events before and after. Statistically the event cannot occur at the very point a trade is placed without some behind the scenes affect after placing the bet. Is this how you control the 76% loss of retail Clients?

My theory as action is triggered by placing of a small position, I see repeatedly a reverse Hedge manipulation of the bet which effects the trade price to induce a closure.

Not fair and certainly not morally in the spirit of placing a balanced calculated trade against market conditions.

I would appreciate a response as I am sure other members would have seen this effect.

[Guest OnceUponATime]

This used to happen to me as well. Until I started trading in the opposite direction, so that now my limits are being hit instead of my stops.

[jlz]

I am not sure if you will get a reply on it from the support team.

Can we know a bit more about that picture that you posted?

What are the market, hour, candle time frame, prices and volume sizes. We can help  to keep an eye on it.
If it is a small time frame like 1min or 5min that move can happen easily but the story would change if it is a 1h or bigger candle chart. When using Level 2 Dealer you can see the market depth and certainly a trader with enough funds would be able to trigger a move to push small trades into their stops. That is definitely something that is commonly done and publicly admitted by big whales. It doesn't necessarily need to point to the broker itself, it can be any party involved in the market.

[Deano85]

Hi jlz, 5 min in the white box between place and stop, 10sec in the second pic whilst long period before and after of steady +/- 2 to 5 pt movement. First one was on Silver Spot, around 9:00pm so quiet, based upon a Spread Bet £2000 margin, 20pt Stop (£125) and Limit of around £1000. Been questioning myself for weeks having placed numerous bets against a trend or steady in place for future period only to find immediate movement of trade line. Not just co-incidence!!

I know that for every bet they place a counter bet to hedge their position, wondering if the reverse hedge in actual market not as a bet can move the market a few pts each time. Keeps the 76% Loss ratio consistent?

Edited July 30, 2020 by Deano85

[Caseynotes]

5 hours ago, Deano85 said:

I know that for every bet they place a counter bet to hedge their position, wondering if the reverse hedge in actual market not as a bet can move the market a few pts each time. Keeps the 76% Loss ratio consistent?

The broker runs an A book of successful traders and a B book of losing traders, every trade needs a counter party and the broker will match shorts to longs in-house as much as possible.

Usually that means matching A book trader's trades to B book trader's trades. 

76% of retail traders (mostly B book) lose, figures are not published for professional registered traders (mostly A book) but have a guess at their lose %?

So the broker makes from the spread of both parties, any residual trades not matched in-house are bundled and parallel hedged meaning the broker hedges in the same direction (you win - they win, and pass the winnings over to you). They still profit because they get a much tighter spread than what they pass on to you.

[THT]

Think this has happened to us all at some point - I know exactly what you mean, the move can defy logic and reasoning, skirts 0.1pt/pip past your stop and then completely 180* u turn and moves as you intended

 

[jlz]

Deano85, recently we have discussed between us the margin required to trade. There were people on the side of "brokers force margin to protect themselves" and "trades are manipulated to make retail traders to lose". I don't agree with any of the sentences and I have lost funds exactly the same way you did.

Look at the Silver Spot chart per day and see the usual moves that has been making over the last 2 weeks.

The average move was way bigger than those 20 points that you set your stop into. Look at Tuesday in particular, that is a day where the prices moves in a range of 400 points up and down. You can easily see that 20 points is super tight stop level and can be triggered. Just because of daily trading adding noise to the chart, a move of 20 points is literally normal.

The margin required to trade in a market is there to cover the possible moves that a price can make and  to stop your account getting into a negative balance.

If you are required 2K of margin is because the market can make that move against you. The key here is the allowance of setting a stop loss by the trader. Brokers let traders to set a stop loss that is below their margin requirements, because they know that traders don't understand margin and most of them would set a stop tighter than what they are required to trade.

In other words , those 76 -80 % retail traders wouldn't lose money if they set their stop losses accounting market volatility and margin requirements. But if they did they wouldn't have enough funds to trade. So there is the business from the broker. They don't need to modify trades or push them against you.

 

[bapu1]

Hi All 

The best way to resolve the problem is to Go to another Broker , Don't stick to IG. IG has gone worse in recent times .

Other Brokers offer better service and pricing then IG . IG dont even answer phones , so whats the point in giving them our money . Good luck  

[dmedin]

5 minutes ago, bapu1 said:

Other Brokers offer better service and pricing then IG . IG dont even answer phones , so whats the point in giving them our money . Good luck  

 

I had a look at a couple the other day.  CMC markets' web platform is old-fashioned and clunky AF but the spread appeared to be a bit lower than IG's.  Oanda have far fewer instruments available to trade and their version of TradingView doesn't have all the available features.

BTW, IG will phone you incessantly when you open up a new account - there's no shortage of staff in the new accounts department, only in the support department.  But if you read their recent earnings release, you'll understand where their priorities lie. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by dmedin

[Caseynotes]

3 minutes ago, bapu1 said:

Hi All 

The best way to resolve the problem is to Go to another Broker , Don't stick to IG. IG has gone worse in recent times .

Other Brokers offer better service and pricing then IG . IG dont even answer phones , so whats the point in giving them our money . Good luck  

says the guy who's been with IG for at least 3 years and despite promising to go to another broker never quite manages it.

There are plenty of cheap brokers operating out of Belize at the moment don't you know, 'Frankie's Brokers' for example (regulated by his mum).

Good luck.

 

[dmedin]

5 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

says the guy who's been with IG for at least 3 years and despite promising to go to another broker never quite manages it.

There are plenty of cheap brokers operating out of Belize at the moment don't you know, 'Frankie's Brokers' for example (regulated by his mum).

Good luck.

 

You're very mean, Tom. 

 

[Caseynotes]

4 minutes ago, dmedin said:

You're very mean, Tom. 

 

says the guy who perpetually trolls, sh!tposts trash to foul threads people have worked hard to produce and has a potty mouth that would shame an 8 year old.

[dmedin]

Just now, Caseynotes said:

says the guy who perpetually trolls, sh!tposts trash to foul threads people have worked hard to produce and has a potty mouth that would shame an 8 year old.

 

Why are you so grumpy Tom

 

[DavyJones]

Wow I just made a trade on this exact topic . Didn't see this thread!

 

[mark27]

2 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

says the guy who perpetually trolls, sh!tposts trash to foul threads people have worked hard to produce and has a potty mouth that would shame an 8 year old.

I will login for this one.He is a complete retard..Spends his days moaning about IG on the forum but never leaves lol.

Why is anyway its always the same select few that have problems with the platform 🤪

[dmedin]

Is it because I said a mean thing about your Dear Leader?  I'm sorry

[dmedin]

2 minutes ago, mark27 said:

I will login for this one.He is a complete retard..Spends his days moaning about IG on the forum but never leaves lol.

Why is anyway its always the same select few that have problems with the platform 🤪

 

 

I don't know, why are you always a c&nt?

[mark27]

Because I don`t like idiots ,and I don`t like idiots that are stupid either

[dmedin]

10 minutes ago, mark27 said:

Because I don`t like idiots ,and I don`t like idiots that are stupid either

 

But you're the stupid idiot. 

Anyway, I saw this and thought of you.  Enjoy sweetheart

 

[mark27]

Id say it took you the full 11 minutes to reply thinking that up

[jlz]

Treat dmedin with care and love, he needs a few more years to cook himself into a person.
Right now he is just asking for attention. Insulting him back will only feed him even more.



 

Edited July 30, 2020 by jlz

[mark27]

6 minutes ago, jlz said:

Treat dmedin with care and love, he needs a few more years to cook himself into a person.
Right now he is just asking for attention. Insulting him back will only feed him even more.



 

Not the he even trades with them.He just posts on the forum.

[dmedin]

^

J3sus Chr!st, where did these mouthbreathing neanderthals come from?

Are they Caseynotes' goons / clones?

No wonder 78% of IG's clients lose money when they are as stupid as that pair of tw4ts  

[jlz]

5 minutes ago, mark27 said:

Not the he even trades with them.He just posts on the forum.

That looks like another case of massive losses vengeance. 

Why would you be that attached to a company if there wasn't an emotional element into it...

That would explain why he tries to bang around anything that gets close to the "corporate" message.

[dmedin]

3 minutes ago, jlz said:

That looks like another case of massive losses vengeance. 

Why would you be that attached to a company if there wasn't an emotional element into it...

That would explain why he tries to bang around anything that gets close to the "corporate" message.

 

Well, as I've said, I haven't found a better broker but that doesn't mean I hold IG above any criticism, unlike some idiot who takes it upon themselves to offer free and unpaid technical support and advocacy for their broker.

Then again, reading and discussion isn't your forte.  You're just here to be angry.  Good on you.  I sincerely hope you don't keel over from a heart attack very soon

 

[jlz]

11 minutes ago, dmedin said:

 

Well, as I've said, I haven't found a better broker but that doesn't mean I hold IG above any criticism, unlike some idiot who takes it upon themselves to offer free and unpaid technical support and advocacy for their broker.

Then again, reading and discussion isn't your forte.  You're just here to be angry.  Good on you.  I sincerely hope you don't keel over from a heart attack very soon

 

Helping others with their technical problems is not of a sign of being an idiot. If I had a similar problem in the past I just post a few words so they can find a fix quickly. There is a line as well as an email address for getting help  from the corporate helpdesk. People come to the forum expecting the support team to answer, and they never do. Basically because they have another line to reach them. So we reply with what we think they can do to fix the problem. There is no harm on that. Normally people appreciate it, and eventually they might reply back helping others.

That lessons comes within the second year after you pass "trolling in forums 101". Be faithful, you will get there.

Edited July 30, 2020 by jlz

[dmedin]

15 minutes ago, jlz said:

Helping others with their technical problems is not of a sign of being an idiot. If I had a similar problem in the past I just post a few words so they can find a fix quickly. There is a line as well as an email address for getting help  from the corporate helpdesk. People come to the forum expecting the support team to answer, and they never do. Basically because they have another line to reach them. So we reply with what we think they can do to fix the problem. There is no harm on that. Normally people appreciate it, and eventually they might reply back helping others.

That lessons comes within the second year after you pass "trolling in forums 101". Be faithful, you will get there.

 

Do what you want sweetheart, I prefer to spend my time trading, you prefer doing unpaid work for IG - different strokes for different folks

[mark27]

2 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

says the guy who perpetually trolls, sh!tposts trash to foul threads people have worked hard to produce and has a potty mouth that would shame an 8 year old.

While on the subject ,what ever happened to the other spammer fool aka trendfollower...seems he has vanished

[Caseynotes]

15 minutes ago, mark27 said:

While on the subject ,what ever happened to the other spammer fool aka trendfollower...seems he has vanished

he got caught out pulling one of his malicious complaints scams to get people banned and ended up earning a warning point for himself from the forum moderators, it left him so enraged he marched off demanding all his posts of the last 3 years be deleted.

[mark27]

6 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

he got caught out pulling one of his malicious complaints scams to get people banned and ended up earning a warning point for himself from the forum moderators, it left him so enraged he marched off demanding all his posts of the last 3 years be deleted.

hahahaha.... 100000 posts gone like that........so no real loss then