Different profit/loss for SPX500 between live and demo for same lot size and point movement

[Gertrude]

Hi,

I have been trading in demo for a while then decided to start live trading, what I've noticed is that for the same lot size, 2 in this instance, I get very different profit/loss amounts for the same point movement. E.g say for 1000points the take profit is £3,500 in demo and it is £20 in live. Is this right or am I missing something? I am aware there might be differences in charges but there is no commission/swap charges at this point.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[AndaIG]

Hi @Gertrude

Thank you for the query,

You would need to be cognizant of the spread or the commission charged in a particular trade. Two equivalent bet sizes should bring about the same running profit for an equivalent point movement, however there would be differences in the charges. Please refer to the below links. One will give you the differences between demo and live trading, the other will provide you with our live account charges. All the best 

Anda

https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/accounts-and-statements/my-accounts/how-does-a-demo-account-differ-from-a-live-account

https://www.ig.com/uk/help-and-support/spread-betting-and-cfds/fees-and-charges

[Gertrude]

Hi @AndalG,

Thank you for your response.

I totally agree with your point that:

Quote

Two equivalent bet sizes should bring about the same running profit for an equivalent point movement, however there would be differences in the charges. 

Which is what surprised me, same lot size, same price movement is showing me very different amounts in demo and live on running trades (a difference of at least £3000 is quite big). I would have expected the stop level (whilst trade is on) to display the same amount regardless of account size with the same lot size (as long as the account is big enough to handle the required margin) then the actual take home would differ  based on charges. Or does the take profit/stop loss depend on both account size and lot size? I'm not getting that from the info, may be I've missed it.

Thanks

[Caseynotes]

1 minute ago, Gertrude said:

Hi @AndalG,

Thank you for your response.

I totally agree with your point that:

Which is what surprised me, same lot size, same price movement is showing me very different amounts in demo and live on running trades (a difference of at least £3000 is quite big). I would have expected the stop level (whilst trade is on) to display the same amount regardless of account size with the same lot size (as long as the account is big enough to handle the required margin) then the actual take home would differ  based on charges. Or does the take profit/stop loss depend on both account size and lot size? I'm not getting that from the info, may be I've missed it.

Thanks

Hi, what platform are you on, IG web or MT4?

[Gertrude]

MT4

[Caseynotes]

I ask because there was and may still be some curious differences between MT4 Live and Demo centered around pips and points and lot size.

 Check that a 0.10 lot size doesn't differ by a factor of 10 between demo and live? 

eg a lot size of 0.10 means the same £/point on both live and demo.

And also, a10 point stop loss is100 on live and demo MT4 platforms for indices but not forex.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by Caseynotes

[Gertrude]

Thanks @Caseynotes,

I will test this and post the details once I can enter trades in my live MT4 account. It doesn't seem to be updating the balance at the moment so will give it a while and try again.

Thanks everyone for the help.

[Gertrude]

An update; I setup a buy stop on the demo and live accounts to see if there would be any difference. Both are set for SPX at 4492.2 lot size 0.10 take profit set at 4500, (780 pips as pert MT4).

In a demo account with £10,000 the tp is £142.09

Live account with £1,000 tp is showing at £0.78

Does this mean the account balance is taken into consideration or have charges been applied even before the trade is activated? 

[Caseynotes]

3 hours ago, Gertrude said:

An update; I setup a buy stop on the demo and live accounts to see if there would be any difference. Both are set for SPX at 4492.2 lot size 0.10 take profit set at 4500, (780 pips as pert MT4).

In a demo account with £10,000 the tp is £142.09

Live account with £1,000 tp is showing at £0.78

Does this mean the account balance is taken into consideration or have charges been applied even before the trade is activated? 

not sure what's happening there, I'll try a matched live/demo trade tomorrow to see. 

[Caseynotes]

13 hours ago, Gertrude said:

An update; I setup a buy stop on the demo and live accounts to see if there would be any difference. Both are set for SPX at 4492.2 lot size 0.10 take profit set at 4500, (780 pips as pert MT4).

In a demo account with £10,000 the tp is £142.09

Live account with £1,000 tp is showing at £0.78

Does this mean the account balance is taken into consideration or have charges been applied even before the trade is activated? 

Ok so I opened trade on both and had same lot size and amounts for stop loss come up same for both. It was a problem a couple of years ago but looks fixed now.

Try the Terminal panel (click icon top row) and check trades or trades history for actual lot size of each trade.

I also placed order on spx on both live and demo same amounts came up for both, tp + 1000 at 0.10 lots = £10.

Might be your margin limit on the smaller size account.

Download the IG mt4 apps pack and load the 'Trade Terminal' expert onto a random new chart, it gives far more info on trade margin used and running margin needed etc.

[Kodiak]

0.1 Lotsize of what?  250 USD contract?

Right click on SP500 and look at specification

[Gertrude]

Hi @Caseynotes,

 

Thanks very much for your help on this.

Quote

Ok so I opened trade on both and had same lot size and amounts for stop loss come up same for both. It was a problem a couple of years ago but looks fixed now.

That's interesting and what I would have expected as well. My MT4 version is 4.00 build 1340 -23 Jul 2021 not sure if my version is coded differently.

I have checked the trades history in terminal and under Experts to see what volumes were actually entered and both seem to match.

Re-install the app and see if makes any changes.

Your help is very appreciated.

[Gertrude]

Hi @Kodiak,

 

6 minutes ago, Kodiak said:

0.1 Lotsize of what?  250 USD contract?

Right click on SP500 and look at specification

I think this is the issue. On my demo the contract size for SP500 is 250 and in my live the contract size is 1.

Do you know what determines the specification on an account? I'm a retail trader so not sure if that matters.

Thanks.

[Caseynotes]

8 minutes ago, Kodiak said:

0.1 Lotsize of what?  250 USD contract?

Right click on SP500 and look at specification

yeah I did look at the Market watch panel right click and select Specification and both same contract size 1

Just seen @Gertrude

as said both demo and live should be same at 1

prob need to contact helpdesk to get changed

[Gertrude]

1 minute ago, Caseynotes said:

yeah I did look at the Market watch panel right click and select Specification and both same contract size 1

Just seen @Gertrude

as said both demo and live should be same at 1

prob need to contact helpdesk to get changed

I will do that.

Your help and that of @Kodiak's has been greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

[Gertrude]

If anyone else encounters any issues trying to sync demo and live below is the response from IG for your ref:

Quote

Thanks for your email.

Please note that as MT4 is a 3rd party platform, we do not handle any demo MT4 issues, any demo issues are to be directed to MT4. With regards to the MT4 live account, this mirrors the information on the standard IG platform.

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

 

[Caseynotes]

17 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

If anyone else encounters any issues trying to sync demo and live below is the response from IG for your ref:

 

Fairly certain that's not right, all the data on the specs page must come from the broker?

And no reason as to why yours differs from other clients.

Below is SPX specs live SB platform on the left and SB demo on the right.

 

 

[Gertrude]

 

1 hour ago, Caseynotes said:

Fairly certain that's not right, all the data on the specs page must come from the broker?

And no reason as to why yours differs from other clients.

Below is SPX specs live SB platform on the left and SB demo on the right.

 

 

I thought it weird too, the other broker I trade with haver similar specs in demo and live too. This is definitely a first for me.