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ESMA RULING AND WHAT I AM DOING

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On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:00 AM, Medusa123 said:

 

There does not seem to be any discussion about what retail traders can do in light of the ESMA rulings.   I want to know if anyone can let me know a company which is not subject to the Draconian ruling.  My opinion is that retail traders are being discriminated against and also are being punished for wanting to spend their money in the way they want;  It seems Spfeadbetting is being classed as gambling and therefore spreadbetters are a stupid lot.  EMSA really have no idea how things work in real life - they need CONTROL over people and think they know best.

I am nieve I know, but I do not care - I have asked ESMA what compensation they will be paying me for the money spent on useless courses, loss of any earnings, and loss of freedom to choose.

 

I am also taking this to the Ombudsman as I sincerely think retail traders are being grossly treated and demonised an also being discriminated against.   My opinion and also other peoples opinions obviously do not matter to them.

i do think this is a DRACONIAN move on their part and not well thought out at all.  It seems to me that they want to be seen as 'doing something' rather than looking for a solution - they obviously think retail traders are a dumb lot and cannot think for themselves.

They are supposedly doing it in the name of' PROTECTION, we know all about this as prohibition has always been a first move for people who need to show they are in control of peoples lives - there is no  true caring thught  here - just an if you don't like it, you will have to lump it attitude.  EMSA is not a parent and retail traders are not children.

I think IG reducing the amount per point would go some way to alleviating the pain of the massive increased margin. Example being FTSE index allowing for £0.25 per point rather than the current £1.  What I end up doing is opening a position against the £1 minimum stake and then selling / buying £0.75 to get the position down to a manageable margin against other spread betting positions.  No doubt getting rich quick has taken a back seat but also the getting poor even quicker may also not happen as often either albeit the high margins have had a massive impact on my use of Spread Betting and the criteria for 'Professional' traders is just not a practical approach to deciding who does know what they are doing including risks and who does not.  

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Anyone remember what year the minimum bet size went up from £0.50/point to £1.00/point, ... about 2013 I think if memory serves.

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24 minutes ago, Zant-A said:

I think IG reducing the amount per point would go some way to alleviating the pain of the massive increased margin. Example being FTSE index allowing for £0.25 per point rather than the current £1.  What I end up doing is opening a position against the £1 minimum stake and then selling / buying £0.75 to get the position down to a manageable margin against other spread betting positions.  No doubt getting rich quick has taken a back seat but also the getting poor even quicker may also not happen as often either albeit the high margins have had a massive impact on my use of Spread Betting and the criteria for 'Professional' traders is just not a practical approach to deciding who does know what they are doing including risks and who does not.  

Yes, and when using proorder/prorealtime you can trade multiple systems at the same time long and short and this new esma thing have done this a lot harder

Min size cfd Hong kong needs almost 3 K margin and if you have one long and one short system running you need 6 K only for that

 

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I now have a live trading account with IC and I shall try them out.  I am very impressed with them at the moment as they have live trading chat which is open all the time and their response is ultra fast and  very helpful as the guys and gals seem to know their onions.   I haven't funded the account yet but will do so on Monday starting with just the $250 dollars.  They do seem client orientated with their nothing is too much trouble approach, which creates  that kin of feel good factor.   The proof will be when I eat the pudding as they say.

 

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1 hour ago, tomjer said:

can you name the firms who accepted as a professional trade

No- It's BANNED according to James at IG to talk of companies providing a better service

Good luck with your ESMA rules! 

 

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6 minutes ago, Medusa123 said:

I now have a live trading account with IC and I shall try them out.  I am very impressed with them at the moment as they have live trading chat which is open all the time and their response is ultra fast and  very helpful as the guys and gals seem to know their onions.   I haven't funded the account yet but will do so on Monday starting with just the $250 dollars.  They do seem client orientated with their nothing is too much trouble approach, which creates  that kin of feel good factor.   The proof will be when I eat the pudding as they say.

 

Did you get a professional account?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Caseynotes said:

Anyone remember what year the minimum bet size went up from £0.50/point to £1.00/point, ... about 2013 I think if memory serves.

Yes 2013 I also remember Soybeans at 1 GBP a point to now 23 GBP a point

No reason was given for the jump as I remember

Take it or leave it

Edited by 202925

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I am in a way surprised IG would ban anyone from talking about another company in view of the upheaval that has been caused over the ESMA rulings.      Why would they be worried if they are giving a great service, they can only be  worry if they think someone else is doing a better job, but that should be a spur to them as it is to all good companies.

 

In answer to the question - no I am retail client - if I thought I could get professional status I would stay in England where I can spread bet, rather than trade CFD's, but there is no way I would get approved

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This is particularly annoying as it has taken me 2-3 years and an expensive course to even get to a trading stradegy that I am happy with and to be making more wins than losses. Now I find that I need to have a huge account so that I can trade how I want to, or hope that I catch a trend similar to what Bit coin was, which I dont think is going to happen soon 😀 do you. So annoying - europe need to understand that there is a gap between people that play Jackpot Joy bingo all night and professional traders, for the likes of us to fit into, who have invested lots of time and money in losing and learning. You dont learn to trade without losing but its what you have to expect if you want to get there. They cannot have such a large gap with no criteria for us. Lets face it if I had £500k at my disposal I probably wouldnt be trading anyway!   

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Well said @Valentino 

I get what ESMA wanted to do, but all in all they should have just enforced negative balance protection. That way no one would lose more than they put in. That’s the primary sort of risk... and maybe another measure like they do elsewhere in Dubai for example once you have lost ‘x’ percent of your declared savings (maybe 5%?) you get notifications and need to speak to someone to confirm you’re happy to continue trading or need to do an education course or something. 

enforced courses would be good, kind of like the IG Academy which people NEED to complete if they lose that 5%...

the current measures just scream “hey traders in the UK - please go offshore and get buggered by unregulated unknown companies”...  

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1 hour ago, 202925 said:

No- It's BANNED according to James at IG to talk of companies providing a better service

Believe the phrase in terms and community guide lines is something along the lines of ‘don’t excessivly promote or discuss third parties’... 

i.e. all these overseas companies know the regulation has come in and it would be hella easy for them to come to the IG forum and start promoting their own companies guerrilla marketing style. 

Its what I’d do if I was IC/others 🙄

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31 minutes ago, PandaFace said:

Believe the phrase in terms and community guide lines is something along the lines of ‘don’t excessivly promote or discuss third parties’... 

i.e. all these overseas companies know the regulation has come in and it would be hella easy for them to come to the IG forum and start promoting their own companies guerrilla marketing style. 

Its what I’d do if I was IC/others 🙄

The people on here can figure it out for themselves,there are other providers as I found out

Ig don't seem to give a toss! 

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1 hour ago, Caseynotes said:

Interesting article here that touches on the problems brokers are having interpretating esma's rules on professional vs retail clients and one firm that's looking to help smaller brokers comply.

https://www.financemagnates.com/executives/interview/exclusive-muinmos-executive-comply-die-small-brokers/  

I was told by a US firm that the rules will still be applied to me by them as I am an EU citizen.

Maybe they just sensed I was small fry and they couldn't be bothered to open an a/c for me....not worth their time etc.

A the article says, I suppose it's open to interpretation. 

And....as we know, IG have invited those who interested to open new IG a/c's in their overseas offices.

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41 minutes ago, JohnRoxton said:

was told by a US firm that the rules will still be applied to me by them as I am an EU citizen.

Not surprising @JohnRoxton, given that even UK brokers were slow to come up with simply opening new accounts for those who wanted them, that US brokers probably have not even looked into the possibility.

The article above talks about the Pareto principle as applied to broker's clients but surely that doesn't mean small retail clients are actually undesirable, everyone has to start somewhere, right.

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8 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Not surprising @JohnRoxton, given that even UK brokers were slow to come up with simply opening new accounts for those who wanted them, that US brokers probably have not even looked into the possibility.

The article above talks about the Pareto principle as applied to broker's clients but surely that doesn't mean small retail clients are actually undesirable, everyone has to start somewhere, right.

Exactly!!! That's the only way that some of the 90% will end up in the 10% profit group!!

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I am quite a Dumbo re these matters but as the ESMA ruling is decidely discriminatory and will cause loss to retail clients cannot we complain to the Ombudsman if there is one?

 

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30 minutes ago, Medusa123 said:

I am quite a Dumbo re these matters but as the ESMA ruling is decidely discriminatory and will cause loss to retail clients cannot we complain to the Ombudsman if there is one?

 

I think it is too much for an Ombudsman to deal with as if memory serves then they arbitrate and deal with complaints within existing laws and regs.

Maybe somebody will take it higher to the EU court of human rights?

The ridiculous thing about ESMA is that anybody can still go out and put £50,000 on a horse if they want to as it is their money and they can do as they please with it.

Maybe a legal eagle can spot a breach in the ruling that infringes on the rights of EU citizens to trade?

ESMA is a perfect case of regulating simply to justify their own existence.

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Hi @Medusa123, there is the FCA and the Financial Ombudsman Service both of which are there to make sure the rule of law is applied fairly and can adjudicate in disputes, the snag is that the EU via ESMA have just changed the law.

You might go to either the FCA or FOS if you thought IG were not applying the new EU regulations appropriately but not because IG was actually adhering to them.

The problem is encroaching EU authoritarianism, not the FCA or FOS or IG.     

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Thanks Guys,

I know IG have to comply with the ESMA ruling but that does not mean retail traders cannot make their voices heard via various channels which might make ESMA re-think.     I am looking to find out if I can get compensation from ESMA for losses incurred ie training, conferences, re retail and professional books, the freedom to trade, and lose if necessary.  The discrimination in their ruling is obvious re retail and professional - professional traders are not immune to losing huge amounts of money.   Also it needs to be brought up as to the actual reality of WHY they have landed on retail traders and vicitimising them - why not horse racing or casinos or sports betting, whatever.    Ifind it rather odd that no one in the UK seems to be coming forward with any ideas or help re this matter.  Why aren't the brokers doing something, I do know of one that MIGHT decide to create outside the reach of the EU tentacles.     By the way I am not a compensation addict at all but it seems only money talks in this arena, so hit them where it hurts.

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We all did what we could back at the end of last year when over 14,000 wrote to protest but it made no difference.

ESMA introduced the new regulations with a view to protect retail and indeed many like the negative equity protection, in fact this was FxPro's unique selling point for many years. Anyone who watched the Swiss bank pull the peg in Jan 2015 and saw the carnage done to thousands of retail clients will appreciate why many welcome it's introduction.

The thrust to any new protest should be directed solely at loosening to some degree the new draconian margin requirements, that would stand a better chance of success than trying to get the whole thing overturned.

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ESMA requirement is hard on all trade client as classified and as I don't have 500K to qualified, but does not implies to take unnecessary risk with another broker out of the heaven zone I know.

Question: So what solution can i provide to my trading considering the ESMA?

Answer, since ESMA set the close out to be 50% of Equity I will implement Account Management as follows which I think is reasonable and more so focusing to be professional in by skill development.

Tradeable Account =  Capital Fund / 2      ... providing a tradable account 
then 10% of Tradeable Account for a single trade 

Note; this is not blanket solution to my account management as I have to considered the require equity to open the position of a particular instrument before concluding on position size base on 10% Tradeable Account.

**Change your approach to the game if the rules change, you are still a winner**

 

 

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I, like most am unhappy with the esma rules, however, I see it as an opportunity to hone my skills... The increased margin rates make it more difficult to lose or make money which is a double edged sword...

I can still make my day targets with the esma ruling, it just takes more skill. The fact that it would take days to blow my account rather than minutes is actually a blessing in disguise & removes the stress of losing it all quickly... 

However, I applied to IC markets (Aust) for an account but experienced bad gateways when setting up the account, which highlighted one of the risks of overseas trading. 

I have now have a CFD account with IG Austrailia which was easy to set up & offers the high leverage I seek. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Interesting how we all have different experiences - I had no problem setting up an account with IC and found them very helpful - also their live chat is very fast and the people are knowledgeable and nothing seemed too much trouble for them

Edited by Medusa123

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On 8/10/2018 at 6:54 PM, Medusa123 said:

Interesting how we all have different experiences - I had no problem setting up an account with IC and found them very helpful - also their live chat is very fast and the people are knowledgeable and nothing seemed too much trouble for them

Interesting. On the back of a few posts on here I thought I’d set up an account as a hedge. Worked quite well for me and app went thru automatically. 

But interestingly my partner also tried and oh my lord they've been hounded by so many difficulties! Literally to the point that the amount of time and effort she’s put in is just not worth it any more - even for the hedge. Apparently no one knows what they’re talking about and they support staff were below poor. 

 

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ICMarkets. I sent proof of Id and it was rejected twice. I took this as a hint of things to come.

No such issues with IG Austrailia...

Lets hope that after the 3 months "trial" the ESMA reduce the margins. Not holding my breath on this one.

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1 hour ago, Sunny Days said:

ICMarkets. I sent proof of Id and it was rejected twice. I took this as a hint of things to come.

No such issues with IG Austrailia...

Lets hope that after the 3 months "trial" the ESMA reduce the margins. Not holding my breath on this one.

Hi Sunny Days,

What's this about a 3 month trial re ESMA?

This is the first I have heard of this.

Thanks

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