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Is spread betting for fools?

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4 minutes ago, dmedin said:

 

It's the in-built ProRealTime one. :)

 

@dmedin

I didn't even know they had one, must take a look. 👿

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Hi, figured I'd give you all an update.  I posted here last night but hadn't logged in so lost in the Guest ether I suppose.

The Fear well and truly has me.  I've decided to pull most of my funds out leaving only £550.  I simply must get this under control.  I'll shoot back and forth to the Demo, but wean off the Demo entirely eventually.  If i don't see a return on this £550 then I'll need a serious rethink about my Future as a Day Trader.

Feel better already. :D

Wold love to hear from you all regarding the chart below.  This is a typical chart I would anticipate a drop soon as it reaches Resistance.  Share price been dropping a lot and recent news suggests even more to come.  What do you all see?  As you mentioned earlier @Caseynotes,  I have now lost my Trust of what I'm doing.

 





 

The fear.jpg

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Posted (edited)

I've also had one of those days where I realize how futile and pointless all of this is. :D

Take heed from the pros and experts who quit day trading and make their money from selling courses, books, seminars, training etc.  If even the 'best' get out of day trading hell as soon as they can, what does that mean for those unfortunate punters still trying to make it work for them?

Edited by dmedin
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Ironically, FOLO got me today.  Even with a £550 account size.  I didn't place the Bet.  Just missed out on £70 quid lol.

You see.  I can spot them.  but now I don't suffer FOMO, just FOLO  ****

 

 

FOLO.thumb.jpg.c8fb4e40429e4228bae3883eed4a6a0b.jpg

 

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32 minutes ago, dmedin said:

I've also had one of those days where I realize how futile and pointless all of this is. :D

Take heed from the pros and experts who quit day trading and make their money from selling courses, books, seminars, training etc.  If even the 'best' get out of day trading hell as soon as they can, what does that mean for those unfortunate punters still trying to make it work for them?

@dmedin

Don't get so down on yourself, follow your picks up and down don't just look for a quick short, if a share price trend turns up go long in fact long is safest with shares because unless you get yourself a Northern Rock or something the price will come back sooner or later but that is not true about a short. 👿

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55 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Ironically, FOLO got me today.  Even with a £550 account size.  I didn't place the Bet.  Just missed out on £70 quid lol.

You see.  I can spot them.  but now I don't suffer FOMO, just FOLO  ****

 

 

FOLO.thumb.jpg.c8fb4e40429e4228bae3883eed4a6a0b.jpg

 

....but at least I'm not down lol

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15 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Ironically, FOLO got me today.  Even with a £550 account size.  I didn't place the Bet.  Just missed out on £70 quid lol.

You see.  I can spot them.  but now I don't suffer FOMO, just FOLO  ****

Picking tops and bottoms is a tough game, maybe they will maybe they won't, that's where the fear comes from. 

Have to ask though, what are your indicators doing? They don't really match what you are looking for.

If you are looking to react fast your MAs are not really going to help, the volume in this case is not doing much and MACD, though it did show divergence, is slow and great for trends but not for fast turns.

Stand back and look at the chart, there were a couple of good moves there and if you had matched the BBands to something fast like Stoch you have something that is telling a story.

The first move down didn't offer any pullbacks, they are hard to jump on, you always think they are about to end and of course if you do jump on they inevitably will. The following pullback ( to first oval) was a bit too strong (big candles) but worth a look as it bounced off the band with the stoch turning but never really took off to continue with trend, the second oval had the bounce off the now upturned B band MA, the stoch turn and the candle reversal pattern for a long entry and turned out to be the best opportunity of the day.

So try to match the tools for the job you are wanting to do whatever that may be.

116647974_OntexGroupNV_20190625_17_17.thumb.png.b0de81d80fa19f1d4ccd2b94db8b45cf.png

 

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Posted (edited)

@Caseynotes I'll be quite honest here.  I don't even know how to use MACD, or most other indicators for that matter.  :(

I simply look down the shares list for anything under £20, has moved 5% and has a minimum of 50pts moved, then look to the chart, notice the volume and whatever the red green histogram is.......I only saw that at 4pm, literally at the point I posted it and anticipated the drop, which it did, but I lost my nerve even after it turned.

I'm cool with still being £550 for today.  At least it's not a loss.

Edited by nit2wynit

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@Foxy

When you are spread betting for example then shorting is no different to going long as you are betting on the price movements in either direction up or down. Now if you apply for example trend following principles to any trading decision then it really should not matter. 

I agree that traders should be very careful when thinking about shorting as it is high risk and if they cannot make money on the 'long' side then do they have the right strategy to make money on the short side? The article is just an opinion of the writer but I would encourage anyone trading to consider going both long or short depending on the price action and trend. 

A trader wants to make money regardless of how the general market or asset they are following is trending. They want to profit from markets trending up and down. Sideways markets are the ones to avoid as they tie up your capital and you are not making much returns during this period. 

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Sorry if I've not been clear again.

Found this set up at 4pm when it had already happened.  Based upon it's previous moves since the beginning of May and news last month, I figured a long down trend that may actually be reversing.  However, my point about anticipating a drop was from 4pm; the point when I discovered the chart.  I hesitated as it reached the top of the previous resistance level, and as it turned slightly, I waited further.  Then I simply decided to let it prove itself and took my finger off the button.  At this point it was around 4.15.  I went outside and come back in at 4.32 (market close) to see it had indeed dropped, and calculated a potential return of £70 @ £2 per point if I had the **** to place it. :D

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5 minutes ago, TrendFollower said:

Sideways markets are the ones to avoid as they tie up your capital and you are not making much returns during this period. 

I lost a lot of hours when I first started doing this.  I'd be stuck for hours so I didn't lose £5 only to lose it anyway. lol

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@dmedin I'm not giving up.  I'm just not using 2k.  £550 is now my limit till I double it.  If I double it I'll add more to the account.

Come on....We can crack this :D

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3 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

I simply look down the shares list for anything under £20, has moved 5% and has a minimum of 50pts moved, then look to the chart, notice the volume and whatever the red green histogram is.......I only saw that at 4pm, literally at the point I posted it and anticipated the drop, which it did, but I lost my nerve even after it turned.

Ok, but do you know how to play reversals though as that was what you were looking to do. And if you are looking for a less stressful way to trade you're going in the wrong direction.

Once fear gets you just can't pull the trigger, that's what you need to be looking at, not all the could haves, should haves.

Sure reversals tend to happen around S/R zones but even so the strategy has a low strike rate, that tends to be made up for by the relatively small stop loss position and the potential for a big move if you can get it right enough times which is hard to do without a great deal of experience.

The better setup to look for is the weak pullback in an impulse move up or down, better odds, less stress.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, TrendFollower said:

@Foxy

When you are spread betting for example then shorting is no different to going long as you are betting on the price movements in either direction up or down. Now if you apply for example trend following principles to any trading decision then it really should not matter. 

I agree that traders should be very careful when thinking about shorting as it is high risk and if they cannot make money on the 'long' side then do they have the right strategy to make money on the short side? The article is just an opinion of the writer but I would encourage anyone trading to consider going both long or short depending on the price action and trend. 

A trader wants to make money regardless of how the general market or asset they are following is trending. They want to profit from markets trending up and down. Sideways markets are the ones to avoid as they tie up your capital and you are not making much returns during this period. 

@TrendFollower

In many ways I agree and I do use both longs and shorts, however there is a time to trade long and a time to trade short. With equities they are bullish most of the time and inexperienced trader short a share just because it is high, this is very dangerous and they are well advised to look for a low to buy as apposed to looking for a high to sell. I posted that link because I feel several new traders here are loosing money because they don't realise how dangerous it is to short a share compared to being long on quality stock.

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2 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Ok, but do you know how to play reversals though as that was what you were looking to do. And if you are looking for a less stressful way to trade you're going in the wrong direction.

Once fear gets you just can't pull the trigger, that's what you need to be looking at, not all the could haves, should haves.

Sure reversals tend to happen around S/R zones but even so the strategy has a low strike rate, that tends to be made up for by the relatively small stop loss position and the potential for a big move if you can get it right enough times which is hard to do without a great deal of experience.

The better setup to look for is the weak pullback in an impulse move up or down, better odds, less stress.

 

 

I see.....Reversal?  Change of direction?

My knowledge is literally Candles up and down lol.  But maybe you have revealed something in my strategy that i was or wasn't aware of.  Yes, i always look for these turns either up or down.  I always anticipate it.  Yes, you're right, this is why I have a tight Stop Loss at the Top or Bottom of the' Reversal'.  Makes sense even to me now.  I'm not a Trend Follower.  I literally look for opportunities for Reversals.  Now I know what it's called :D  S/R zones?? Don't know lol :O

But like I've proven on the Demo (Fear aside) I can make this work, very easily, 80% of the time.

What I can't do is handle the real world potential for huge losses.  hence, smaller account size.

I'll keep going.  still got the Academy to get thru.

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@Foxy,

Oh ok. That is fair enough. I agree with your points. One must know what they are doing first before even thinking about shorting.

Apologies I did not understand so thanks for clarifying. 

@Foxy makes a very important and valid point. If you have not learnt to trade on the long side then you really should not dabble on the short side. I can see where Foxy is coming from here. 

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@nit2wynit

My one humble bit of advice, would be to turn off the MACD as it's not always very clear - the RSI is the easiest to understand and use.  Stochastics are also good but you have more variables to fiddle with there. 

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58 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Sure reversals tend to happen around S/R

support resistance.  Got it :D

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22 minutes ago, dmedin said:

@nit2wynit

My one humble bit of advice, would be to turn off the MACD as it's not always very clear - the RSI is the easiest to understand and use.  Stochastics are also good but you have more variables to fiddle with there. 

I'll check em out.but to be honest...........I win a lot....On the Demo :D

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Hunting Stops.  Yeah, I've witnessed that a few times :D  There's my first -£200 back in march lol.

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4 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Hunting Stops.  Yeah, I've witnessed that a few times :D  There's my first -£200 back in march lol.

Makes sense though doesn't it, you only have to look at a chart to guess where the stops are, if you are big enough and you want those contracts it's just a matter of taking one step backwards before taking 5 steps forwards, you rarely need to go back further than 20 ticks.

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Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Makes sense though doesn't it, you only have to look at a chart to guess where the stops are, if you are big enough and you want those contracts it's just a matter of taking one step backwards before taking 5 steps forwards, you rarely need to go back further than 20 ticks.

Yeah, it was a slow process for me.  I obviously placed my Stops at the Obvious places with not enough room to stay out of reach of the Hunters.  But In hindsight it was always my problem as we've discussed; Anticipating the Breakout or Reversal, Instead of making sure and placing afterwards.  This meant my Stop were always further away than I wanted so the Risk Reward was large.  Only £600 down.  Lesson learned on that one.

Is anyone watching RPS Group?  I've only noticed it at 12pm

RPS.thumb.jpg.b626e2e4e872453bb18942e85c2cc98c.jpg

Edited by nit2wynit

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@nit2wynit, MACd is 1 of the easiest indicators to use i found, but i think you need to play around with all the indicators in the demo to see how they work, and find 2-3 good ones that work for u, or you feel real comfortable using/reading. You can google search an explanation of them all, when i first started i played with a lot of them, i then tried a few together to see which ones worked better with each other, that gave me a clear picture in an instance glance

Finding the right indicators as suggested by somebody else is the key to making it work for you, rather than making you work for it. 

The other thing as a day trader to make it work in my opinion is focus on an Index like the FTSE since your in the UK, theres enough waves to ride in the 1st couple hours to make your desired goal and then get off the markets for the rest of the day, which u have said you wanted to do.

If you were setting up to follow trends and take the long positions, then you could study more share charts to find the right ones.

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@nit2wynit heres the FTSE graph for today, should be more than enough waves to ride and scalp the market mate, some nice big ups and downs.

The Macd has a normal set of numbers 12, 26, 9, but i use 6, 13, 8 as it makes the cross over happen approx 4 mins earlier letting me on, before it moves too far away.  just my preference.

image.thumb.png.e987abe545ca9ac5d3601b2f1647aee7.png

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Guest Marcus

Is Spread Betting for fools?

Well everything is for fools.

I introduced specialty breads to London in 1980. Never made any real money. Got out totally exhausted in 2003 and the market took off. Would a safe investment strategy be to buy and hold blue chip stocks? So what went wrong with Marconi, Woolworths and so on. When was the right time to get out on a buy and hold strategy?

I started trading on a spread betting platform in 2000. I was short the market into the 07/08 crash. Yes, I went short in 2005 and chucked it in just before it came to pass.

Started again in 2016 and holding steady after initial heavy losses. Up 30% so far this year on a small account. I consider that to be chicken feed.

I have signed up to Trading College run by Lee Sandford. I need help to push on. A mentor. An edge. So far I am very happy at College. Real people taking real trades and teaching the how and why in real time. Nothing to hide. I don't necessarily take the same trades but apply the mechanics to the trades I want to do.

It has been a long journey but I think the odds are finally turning in my favour. 

It isn't magic. Just dogged determination not to give up. The best thing I have done is to ask for help.

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On 27/06/2019 at 09:18, davidbrister said:

@nit2wynit heres the FTSE graph for today, should be more than enough waves to ride and scalp the market mate, some nice big ups and downs.

The Macd has a normal set of numbers 12, 26, 9, but i use 6, 13, 8 as it makes the cross over happen approx 4 mins earlier letting me on, before it moves too far away.  just my preference.

image.thumb.png.e987abe545ca9ac5d3601b2f1647aee7.png

 

 

Jeez man 🙈  You're brave if you trade that ... a lot braver than me anyway.  I'm just dumb and would lose lots of money :D

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On 28/06/2019 at 21:04, dmedin said:

 

 

Jeez man 🙈  You're brave if you trade that ... a lot braver than me anyway.  I'm just dumb and would lose lots of money :D

@dmedin, lol. if you want dumb, take a look at the asian markets- Hang Seng and Niki, it jumps up and down so bad in big numbers, that 1 is easy to lose cash on.

 

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On 14/06/2019 at 03:13, TrendFollower said:

@Dr_FX,

First of all it is the trader who is at fault, not IG. They merely offer the platform and services to allow their clients to Spread Bet.

I use IG's UK Spread Betting account. I feel like a parrot repeating the same message but to achieve consistent profits the only way you can do it is to trade the strongest trending assets and trade them in the direction of the trend and not against it. It is about holding on to your winners and if you do that then your position may be for days, weeks or months but the initial spread will not even be an issue. If it is the strongest trending asset then the daily charges will not be an issue. These factors only become an issue if you day trade or hold a position for only a few days or so. Overtrading and trying to be too clever is what gets you into trouble. 

Being able to conduct Technical Analysis does not mean you are going to be a successful and profitable trader. Being able to study and understand complex Technical Analysis does not mean you are going to be a successful and profitable trader. You need capital. You need to be able to take losses and accept them and embrace them. I remember sharing a live trade which was a losing trade on IG and the belittling I got was ridiculous. It was like OMG TrendFollower made a loss. He is gambling and he does not know what he is doing, etc. It is the trading strategy and the trading system that can effectively deliver the strategy that is important. Of course this is not possible without a trading plan. There are far too many traders on IG Community that simply do not have a trading plan, trading strategy and a trading system to deliver and execute effectively all this. That is where one of the problem lies. For them it is borderline gambling. 

Traders will make losses. Those who do not are lying. By trading less frequently and holding on to you winning trades for longer gives you the best chance to succeed when using Spread Betting. That is what my experience tells me. You can still lose if you trading a strong trending asset when you get in late and most of the move has come and gone. So then it is all about identifying the trends as early as possible. Trend Identification becomes key. 

This is my first time on the IG community and reading a thread. I find this hilarious, and more importantly for the first time have seen some insight in how other traders think.

Don't worry, i know what you mean. The word spreadbetting sounds like gambling because it has the word betting in it. But we're not betting on the spread, we're betting on the movement of price, and i think the reason they call it spreadbetting is simply to give it a gambling legal status to get the tax breaks.

If you buy $1,000 worth of shares and pay $10 commission through a broker, or buy $1,000 worth of shares and pay $1,010 for then through spread differences then what's the difference? I don't see this as spread betting, i see it as trading normally and paying a spread fee.

Spreadbetting offers leverage which is a great thing, as long as you trade with a plan and know exactly how much you're risking then there shouldn't be any surprises. I've never understood when people say leverage is risky, on the platform before you put on a trade you can clearly see the monetary value of your loss should your stop be hit, if you think it's too high, make your position size smaller.

Out of interest do you use the guaranteed stops? The insurance of having it is great, but the premium is pretty high. 99.9% of the time it's not needed, but for occurrences like what happened to the Swiss Franc it would save my esra

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