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Is spread betting for fools?


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I don't know what expectations you had when you started David, mine were to make a lot of money and retire.  That didn't happen.  After a while I stopped trading, took a step back and looked at what w

Indeed I have been sat here for a good many tears, I mean years. Did I get rich quick, no. I do treat it as a business though, a buying and selling business. So like all careers there is a lot of

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28 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

BTW.  Pivot Points are a great Help :D

Glad to hear re pivot points, they need to be assessed for each market but they are so related to H4 and daily support and resistance levels they should be good for most.

The limit line is your take profit level, if you click and hold you can slide it as far up as you want.

The entry level is on the left column and will just say +/- the position size while the stop and limit above and below will say the amount to lose or gain.

This is basic stuff, you really should find the time to look at the academy :D

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Guest gavguns
On 18/07/2019 at 15:48, dmedin said:

@nit2wynit

Sometimes I just wish someone would come along and put me out of my misery.

Look I'm no expert trader, but  @dmedin you do realise that IG's business profits from your money? Has it occurred to you that there might be a conflict of interest in also being involved in your education? I mean they generate HUGE profits, they must be terribly disappointed that their education arm has such a poor success rate... And as for their fundamental analysis, it's almost as if it's misleading... Nah, it couldn't be, could it? #doh #thinkaboutit 

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3 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

The limit line is your take profit level, if you click and hold you can slide it as far up as you want.

The entry level is on the left column and will just say +/- the position size while the stop and limit above and below will say the amount to lose or gain.

You're kidding...Right??

I've been trading since Feb lol

I know what they mean lol

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Its facts,its obvious lots of novice individual being tricked by it.

You must have capital of 50 -100K for a start,and trade INDEXES, like NIKKEI,DAX,DOW,S&P.

To have holding power is A MUST .

Personally i feel that equities moves not volatile,

Do remember the charges by providers like borrowing,funding,commission etc.,these will eat up your capital daily like termites,NO FREE LUNCH ,CFD are for hardcore punters.

All the best,for HARCORE punters.

I envy rogue trader called,LONDON WHALE.

Cheers

hart

 

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5 hours ago, nit2wynit said:

@Caseynotes 

I know you get confused as you post so much you lose track of whom you're talking with but yeah.....Basics :D

Thanks though

To make things a little clearer, when I said 'are you sure about this' what I really meant was that you are totally, utterly and completely wrong.

As the old saying goes there is nothing wrong with being wrong, it's the staying wrong that's the problem.

You need to look at my drawing on your chart pic again;

The 18 point spread is the 9 + 9 points either side of the chart price (which is set to mid) as I have drawn it. No, it's not 30 to 60 points away from the chart price in your shaded area below your stop loss. The stop loss is 34 points away from entry at 3300 for a long or 34 points away from 3282 for a short, the spread is already built into the stop loss.

LOL, as you say, you've been trading since Feb  and you thought the limit line was the entry line and you have no idea what the spread is or where to find it.

 yeah, basics.

I know you get confused as I have to post many corrections to your posts, what gets me though is that you always hold onto wrong for so long. And this must be the fifth or sixth time I've tried to help with one of your little 'misunderstandings', each time is meet with instant knee **** denial, in the meantime your account balance has gone from £2000 to £900. The clock is ticking down so probably best not to insult those who are trying to help :D

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Wooooaaahhh.  Lost in Translation.  I didn't Insult you.  You recently got 'Confused' with me and the Dow or Dax......It was simply a nod to that.

I'm a grown man.  I'm not defensive, argumentative, sarcastic or a liar.  

 

But i'm afraid, You are Completely Wrong here. (I think!) The Limit Line IS my Buy in.!  It will change to either of the Buy or Sell price.  As I have it in the Mid position, it's simply changes either side of the Mid Price.  Therefore the Limit, if i don't set one, is the Buy Price.

Sorry bud, but as usual you've gone off on one and actually insulted me.

You are a character. :D

 

Edited by nit2wynit
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@Caseynotes oh and btw, I've not gone from 2k to 900.

I had £1945.  I went down to £1437 and pulled out £400 to buy a bike.   On Friday last week I was down to £986, and took it back up to £1028.  Then went back down to £953.  I now have £953.


Previously in March I had £1400 and lost £400 over 3 weeks.  I pulled out 1k to Buy Pinterest.


 

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@Caseynotes I refer you yourself back to the chart you edited.  The Limit IS my BUY in of 3300.  The Mid Price is as you've stated, i know this, and if I was Shorting the Limit line would be my Buy price at 3282.


I'm not completely certain of what you're actually pointing out.

I just want to know what the Gray area is.

So far Dmedin has come up with the simplest answer.  It appears to be 9 points-half the spread!


If there's another explanation i'd love to hear it.

Thanks

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1 hour ago, nit2wynit said:

@dmedin @Caseynotes

It's possible the Minimum Stop changed as i was observing the chart.  On the example below, the same Gray area is present.  It's there to tell me that the minimum Stop is 20pts while I have it to 10.

Do you agree?

1049981625_grayarea.jpg.2a81b1a009777534306b390782df9a68.jpg

Ok I see;

 So in this example you've posted above you have got your chart price line set to Ask instead of Mid, see it's the same as the buy price (top left).

Slide the Limit order (take profit) level down out of the way so you can see your entry level.

Your stop for the sell is 20 points above your entry level.

Now toggle your price setting from Ask to Bid, see the price line drops down to your sell entry level which is the same as the Sell price (top left) but the Stop and Limit levels don't change.

Now toggle the price to Mid and the price line moves to mid way between the Sell and Buy but again the Stop and Limit levels don't change.

So the shaded area covers the 20 point stop from the Ask price level while the actual Stop level will always be taken from the Entry level.

 

 

 

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@Caseynotes the chart above was about the gray area, not the Mid Bid Ask position. 

I know what the Mid Bid and Ask price are.  I said earlier that the Limit Line was my Buy In price.  You said i was utterly completely wrong!  I am not.!

If I have no Limit amount set, the Limit Line is my Buy price, going Long or Short. 


The chart above is not set to Ask, it is set to Mid.  It's simply on Sell.  That's why there is no price showing.  The white box is the Mid price  This is what changing from Mid Bid Ask price does.  It highlights those prices.  The Limit line below the Mid price of is the Sell price buy point.

I only use the Mid price as it indicates clearly the amount of spread.  Remember Shares don't show Spread count.  It must be calculated.

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11 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

@Caseynotes the chart above was about the gray area, not the Mid Bid Ask position. 

I know what the Mid Bid and Ask price are.  I said earlier that the Limit Line was my Buy In price.  You said i was utterly completely wrong!  I am not.!

If I have no Limit amount set, the Limit Line is my Buy price, going Long or Short. 


The chart above is not set to Ask, it is set to Mid.  It's simply on Sell.  That's why there is no price showing.  The white box is the Mid price  This is what changing from Mid Bid Ask price does.  It highlights those prices.  The Limit line below the Mid price of is the Sell price buy point.

I only use the Mid price as it indicates clearly the amount of spread.  Remember Shares don't show Spread count.  It must be calculated.

The shaded area has nothing to do with spread.

Move the Limit line out of the way so you can see the entry line.

The price level is the white box, the stop level is the red box, the limit level is the purple box and the entry level is the blue line.

On your picture the price (white box) was the same as the Buy price because it was set to Ask.

The shaded area covers the min stop position if the price is set to Ask but the actual stop level is always taken from the entry level.

 

 

image.thumb.png.553493e67ca299dc085360a695db9674.png

 

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Casey it was not set to Ask!!!  I know you know your stuff, but you're mistaken.  See below.  The highlighted number is the Mid price showing.  The Red Limit Line below it is the Sell Price.  this is where i would place the trade.  as i have not altered the Limit, the Limit Line is the Sell Price i would go in at.

The Buy Price being 1244.8, 4 points above the Mid price! 8pt spread.

 

795542498_StopLimit.jpg.70f1d1e1e90ac495dff7b82c0fd4bc91.jpg

Edited by nit2wynit
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3 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Casey it was not set to Ask!!!  I know you know your stuff, but you're mistaken.  See below.  The highlighted number is the Mid price showing.  The Red Limit Line below it is the Sell Price.  this is where i would place the trade.  as i have not altered the Limit, the Limit Line is the Sell Price i would go in at.

 

795542498_StopLimit.jpg.70f1d1e1e90ac495dff7b82c0fd4bc91.jpg

yes, in THIS example pictured above the price is set to Mid as is half way between the Sell and Buy as opposed to the previous picture which showed the price set to Ask as it matched the Buy price.

Each chart can be set individually so might be worth going back to the previous chart and check.

The Sell price is your Entry price level for a short which is covered over by the Limit line if no limit is set and the stop is set from the Entry level regardless of price being set to ask, bid or mid. 

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Just now, Caseynotes said:

yes, in THIS example pictured above the price is set to Mid as is half way between the Sell and Buy as opposed to the previous picture which showed the price set to Ask as it matched the Buy price.

Each chart can be set individually so might be worth going back to the previous chart and check.

The Sell price is your Entry price level for a short which is covered over by the Limit line if no limit is set and the stop is set from the Entry level regardless of price being set to ask, bid or mid. 

That's what I said.  My Limit is my Buy in :D

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17 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

The limit line is your take profit level, if you click and hold you can slide it as far up as you want.

The entry level is on the left column and will just say +/- the position size while the stop and limit above and below will say the amount to lose or gain.

This is basic stuff, you really should find the time to look at the academy :D

This is what we've been going back and forth about @Caseynotes

Then I replied this:
 

14 hours ago, nit2wynit said:

You're kidding...Right??

I've been trading since Feb lol

I know what they mean lol

to which you replied this:

7 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

LOL, as you say, you've been trading since Feb  and you thought the limit line was the entry line and you have no idea what the spread is or where to find it.

Do you see the problem here?

The Limit Line IS my Buy In.

But I can see how you may have taken this too literally, that even if i set my Limit to 500, you must have thought i was saying 500 would be my Buy in.

I hope this is clear now.

Thanks

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14 hours ago, hart said:

Its facts,its obvious lots of novice individual being tricked by it.

You must have capital of 50 -100K for a start,and trade INDEXES, like NIKKEI,DAX,DOW,S&P.

To have holding power is A MUST .

 

 

 

That's an interesting perspective, and probably not far from the truth.  

I think it's possible to make money from a smaller balance, but not enough money to 'live on'.

I like the example of choosing whether to put £2000 into a savings accounts that pays out 2% interest or spread betting with it and trying to make a greater than 2% return over 12 months.  It sets expectations much lower and makes them more realistic.

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19 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

This is what we've been going back and forth about @Caseynotes

Then I replied this:
 

to which you replied this:

Do you see the problem here?

The Limit Line IS my Buy In.

But I can see how you may have taken this too literally, that even if i set my Limit to 500, you must have thought i was saying 500 would be my Buy in.

I hope this is clear now.

Thanks

Of course I see what the problem is, I've been explaining it  to you for ages, go back over the thread and see for yourself .

 

 

Edited by Caseynotes
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11 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Of course I see what the problem is, I've been explaining it  to you for ages, go back over the thread and see for yourself .

Wrong, and you seem to offer no humility at all.

I grow tired and weary.

Thanks.  I'll work the rest out on my own.

 

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4 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Wrong, and you seem to offer no humility at all.

I grow tired and weary.

Thanks.  I'll work the rest out on my own.

 

What are you talking about I've just worked the whole thing out for you, it's all there in the thread. As I said, you should try reading it, instead of just firing out rapid replies and additions one after the other that miss the point or deliberately try to misdirect, it's obvious where the humility should be coming from.

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This is literally the last i will say on it.

You scoffed and lol'd once again about my being wrong about my Limit being the Buy price.  You clearly confused yourself about which chart and what point was being made.  You create another short story about how silly I am and how you pointed out the Academy 2 months ago etc.  You think I don't have access to the internet Casey?  You realise there are thousands of pages to Link to for info on What is Spread betting etc.  The market, Lessons, charts Instruments.  Everything you know, you acquired over time.

You're arrogant, Sarcastic, and offer rhetoric that can be easily found by typing it into Google.

You may have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but a teacher you are not.

Who fails first?  The Teacher or the Student?

What is it you think you worked out???????????????

I asked what the Gray area was.  You said you didn't know.  I've figured it out and told you.  You've gone on and on about Mid Ask and Bid prices.  I never asked you!

I told you I knew and you lol'd, and referenced a mute point that was never asked!


17 hours or more later, still going on about Mid and Bid....I know what they are.  I know the spread.  I now I know what the Gray area is.

I've seen this approach from you with other people.

It's bad taste.


If you really want to help, use 1k find a trade, and Live stream your success of it. 

I told you my Limit was the Buy price.  you said i was wrong.  You were wrong.



Have a  great Day. :D

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59 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

This is literally the last i will say on it.

You scoffed and lol'd once again about my being wrong about my Limit being the Buy price.  You clearly confused yourself about which chart and what point was being made.  You create another short story about how silly I am and how you pointed out the Academy 2 months ago etc.  You think I don't have access to the internet Casey?  You realise there are thousands of pages to Link to for info on What is Spread betting etc.  The market, Lessons, charts Instruments.  Everything you know, you acquired over time.

You're arrogant, Sarcastic, and offer rhetoric that can be easily found by typing it into Google.

You may have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but a teacher you are not.

Who fails first?  The Teacher or the Student?

What is it you think you worked out???????????????

I asked what the Gray area was.  You said you didn't know.  I've figured it out and told you.  You've gone on and on about Mid Ask and Bid prices.  I never asked you!

I told you I knew and you lol'd, and referenced a mute point that was never asked!


17 hours or more later, still going on about Mid and Bid....I know what they are.  I know the spread.  I now I know what the Gray area is.

I've seen this approach from you with other people.

It's bad taste.


If you really want to help, use 1k find a trade, and Live stream your success of it. 

I told you my Limit was the Buy price.  you said i was wrong.  You were wrong.



Have a  great Day. :D

you asked about the shaded area then said it was the spread, i told you you were wrong and you were, i then worked it out for you (it was to do with the ask, bid and mid prices). read the answers before replying.

you were wrong about the shaded area, you were wrong about the spread, you were wrong about what the limit is, you keep saying you need more education but you admit you never get round to it which is a shame because you don't know any of the basics at all, as a consequence your posts are misleading to others just starting out which is why I feel compelled to keep correcting them.

Using max margin on every trade to put on £170/point with a £2000 account. Good Lord.

I can understand why you want someone to copy trades from as your own technique of mashing the buy or sell button on a whim and a prayer is not working out for you. Still, that wont be a problem for long with a 60% drawdown on your account in just 4 months, and most of that time was spent on demo. 

Yes, it's a common theme people will repeatedly ask for help but then never take on board any of the answers or advice. Can you imagine the hundreds I've seen go through this forum over the last 3 and a half years, some things never change. 

 

 

 

 

 

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