Is spread betting for fools?

[dmedin]

@nit2wynit Yeah the spreads are not tight enough to make this kind of trading possible.

I think that this kind of trading is only possible for professional clients, the downside is that you can end up losing more than you deposit into your account and owing enormous debts to IG.

[Caseynotes]

@dmedin & @nit2wynit,  fake spikes do unfortunately turn up on demo platforms occasionally, obviously not fraudulent as no money is involved, spreads for professional clients are the same if not worse than for retail because of larger size of deals, are you sure it's not the market that's laggy rather than the platform, it's certainly not on liquid markets or 10s of thousands would be complaining rather than just 1, a spinning cog is usually either a connection problem or there just is no market at that time, tablets and mobiles are prone to connection drop outs that cause gaps in the charts and distorted candles until a restart fills in the back data, and what is 'refresh' the chart, I've never needed to do that or even know how?  

[dmedin]

@Caseynotes I see the potential for it to be highly misleading, as some people might make live bets based on outcomes on the demo platform (might be a remote possibility).  Why the two platforms can't share an identical data feed is beyond my understanding.

Edited September 4, 2019 by dmedin

[nit2wynit]

2 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

are you sure it's not the market that's laggy rather than the platform

Casey, do you actually, or have you ever actually used the retail platform?

It's the worst of all other UK platforms I've used.  I have no connection issues anywhere at all anytime.  I'm online all day either watching Youtube videos or on a night I might be online gaming or streaming video on Netflix.  I've a solid connection to the internet and can confirm no other issues using other platforms.  When I say 'Lagging' I mean the chart doesn't move fluidly while dragging, however, most of the time the 'Volume' candles are missing from the last 10 minutes or so.  I must Refresh the entire page (Chrome-Reload Page) and the chart will update.  I can mouse click to move the chart but nothing happens; it's jumping all over lagging behind my mouse.   As for Mobiles and Tablets suffering dropout, well, it's was my PC that was behind the tablet and it's connected by ethernet directly to router.  
I'm not saying it's the platform, but it's pointing to it right now and it's been like this for me since day1.   That's why I've contacted IG to see if we can find the cause.

As for being the only one to report this issue, well, if you go back far enough you can see others commenting on it back when the New platform went Live  2015 I think.  So far as i can see most of you guys don't use Retail platform, so no wonder it's not on your radar.

If you can confirm it's fluidity and is On Par with your MT4 charts then I'll need to investigate further.  It's very possible a specific issue to me.

[Caseynotes]

7 hours ago, nit2wynit said:

If you can confirm it's fluidity and is On Par with your MT4 charts then I'll need to investigate further.  It's very possible a specific issue to me.

sure I have used the web based platform, if the problems you describe above were platform based there would be 36,000 people on here complaining but 1 or a few  would seem more likely to be something on your computer is interfering with the running of the IG app, i did mention this before but you dismissed it out of hand.

I go on the web based platform every day and never once have I ever felt the need to press the reload page button.

[Caseynotes]

8 hours ago, dmedin said:

Why the two platforms can't share an identical data feed is beyond my understanding.

The demo platform is primarily a test bed for IG tech staff, clients being allowed to use it is a secondary consideration, I've said in the past that the two are more or less the same and they are for normal markets with sufficient liquidity but there may be occasional noticeable differences, see list below.

Something else to ponder is that a trading platform is not a calculator or a cash register, it's a communication tool and sometimes the market just doesn't want to listen no matter how hard you might be smashing the sell button 🙂

 

[dmedin]

1 hour ago, Caseynotes said:

The demo platform is primarily a test bed for IG tech staff, clients being allowed to use it is a secondary consideration

 

Ah well then ... that definitely needs to be pointed out.  Very misleading.  Do those considerations apply to people not using MT4?

Edited September 5, 2019 by dmedin

[Caseynotes]

3 minutes ago, dmedin said:

 

Ah well then ... that definitely needs to be pointed out.  Very misleading.  Do those considerations apply to people not using MT4?

I would say probably as it's the same for every broker or whoever, who develops their own platform.

[nit2wynit]

2 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

i did mention this before but you dismissed it out of hand.

I don't recall dismissing it.  I've always allowed for the possibility that my setup is somehow corrupting it.  I've stated it as often as possible while posting, but I've still had no feedback from IG.  The main point is it's only with IG.   I'm still waiting for IT to get back to me to see if we can find an issue.  I've even gone so far to download Screen Recording software, but not used it yet.   I suppose you'd need to be sitting in front of the Platform for an entire day placing several trades and have several charts open.  Only then could you ascertain if there was an issue.


So regardless of whether the problem is my end, it doesn't effect anything else or any other platform, website, video etc.

The question then is what is special about IG that my machine could be having a problem with.  This is what I'm hoping to answer.

[nit2wynit]

23 minutes ago, dmedin said:

The demo platform is primarily a test bed for IG tech staff, clients being allowed to use it is a secondary consideration

While this has indeed been pointed out in the past, I'd assumed it to be a Possibility not a Fact.  If it's not the genuine article then no wonder my successes on the Demo far exceed those Live!

[Caseynotes]

2 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

While this has indeed been pointed out in the past, I'd assumed it to be a Possibility not a Fact.  If it's not the genuine article then no wonder my successes on the Demo far exceed those Live!

More likely to be noticeable on illquid markets such as aim stocks, not likely to be an issue if learning on fx majors or indices except for high impact news events.

[Caseynotes]

13 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

 I suppose you'd need to be sitting in front of the Platform for an entire day placing several trades and have several charts open.  Only then could you ascertain if there was an issue.

there are literally thousands of IG clients doing this

[nit2wynit]

2 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

More likely to be noticeable on illquid markets such as aim stocks, not likely to be an issue if learning on fx majors or indices except for high impact news events.

I think there is a miss-understanding as I have several issues.

The Lagging is the Software; the platform itself.  It slows, like an old computer that doesn't have the processing power or the graphics capability.   Clicking instruments is slow, moving charts is slow.  I'm pretty certain this is just a programming fault on the platform.  It may not be noticeable to other users who've always been with IG and not tried other Platforms.

Here's a test if you have the time.  Go to Tradingview and open a chart.  Click with your mouse and move it around.  Then try it with IG.  Saxo, CMC and other i've tried are also more responsive.  If there's no obvious difference in the fluidity of how smoothly the charts moves around the screen then I don't know what to say.

My other issues are technical specific, like P/L being different, missing Close button on Chart frequent message at the top in Red saying 'There is a problem try again later' when opening an Instrument.  The list is already too long.

[nit2wynit]

2 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

there are literally thousands of IG clients doing this

yes, but have they tried all the other platforms as a comparrison?

To others it maybe something they're used to.  It's OK, it works for them.

If you've only ever had a fast car, then moving to a slower one will be obvious, but if you've only ever had a slow car but it gets you to work on time, then you're not missing anything.

I suppose I'll need to do a video capture to show it.  there's nothign to be achieved inthis back and forth.

I have a problem.  Others don't.!

[Caseynotes]

I go on the IG platform every day and move charts around all the time, I go on tradingview most days and move charts around, the IG platform is not discernibly laggy at all compared to tradingview, not ever.

[nit2wynit]

6 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

I go on the IG platform every day and move charts around all the time, I go on tradingview most days and move charts around, the IG platform is not discernibly laggy at all compared to tradingview, not ever.

Then there is an incompatibility between my machine and IG platform.

The question is; What?

[nit2wynit]

12 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

I go on the IG platform every day and move charts around all the time

Why do you go on the IG Retail Platform if you use MT4?

Edited September 5, 2019 by nit2wynit

[Caseynotes]

2 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Then there is an incompatibility between my machine and IG platform.

The question is; What?

I can only presume there is something running on your computer that's interfering with the IG app, I think I would be looking at what else is running and would trial shutting down any possible candidates.

4 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Why do you go on the IG Retail Platform is you use MT4?

Sometimes I'll have 3 or 4 platforms running at once, I move charts around on the IG platform for the daily dashboard post every morning, I'm often checking charts for others who have a query, that might mean having open mt4, IG live and IG demo and Tradingview all at once, I've been doing it for years.

[nit2wynit]

7 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Sometimes I'll have 3 or 4 platforms running at once, I move charts around on the IG platform for the daily dashboard post every morning, I'm often checking charts for others who have a query, that might mean having open mt4, IG live and IG demo and Tradingview all at once, I've been doing it for years.

Then I have a problem.

I restart my machine every day.  I use CCleaner also.

It would be interesting to see you moving the chart around in realtime and comparing it to Tradingview.  I am going to do a side by side and Screen record.  Not sure if will even play here though.

The IG platform may not be broken, but you're claiming there's no discernable difference at all to Trading view and how fluid the charts are.  It's possible I'm being over critical, or you're not being critical enough.

If it's a simple case that the IG platform isn't that smooth, then I'll move on to my other issues of missing Volume date and Page Refresh etc.

[Caseynotes]

7 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

It would be interesting to see you moving the chart around in realtime and comparing it to Tradingview.  I am going to do a side by side and Screen record.  Not sure if will even play here though.

I've used Tradingview for years and I've used the IG new platform since it was introduced, and the old platform for years before that, if there was a discernible lag between the IG new platform and Tradingview I really would have noticed.

The problems you list are all related (not 2 separate causes) and would seem to be particular to your computer.

[nit2wynit]

9 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

The problems you list are all related (not 2 separate causes) and would seem to be particular to your computer.

It seems that way.....

But I'm no closer to finding a solution

So, are you aware of anything in particular that might cause slowdown on the charts?

[Caseynotes]

5 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

It seems that way.....

But I'm no closer to finding a solution

So, are you aware of anything in particular that might cause slowdown on the charts?

Difficult to say but I would start to suspend other apps one by one and see if there was any change, you said you don't use an antivirus but check windows defender, stop using the Cleaner you mentioned earlier, next I would go into resource manager and look at the top exe cpu usage files and suspend any you don't need one by one. I've actually suspended the top 9, I don't use them and so I don't need them running constantly, stuff like cortana, skype, yourphone, winappstore. 

[nit2wynit]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt Casey.  I know how to use msconfig to shut down all non essential programs, which is already done.  I do have dropbox running though.  I could also try safemode.

but before i start stripping my machine apart i need to see a comparison in Real time.  I'm currently looking at the screen cap software.

Like I've said, i could simply be over critical of how i expect the chart to move with my mouse.

I've said before that I've prematurely closed trades or extended the Stop because the mouse click doesn't move the chart, but effects it in a different place. 

[dmedin]

Maybe that's why even IG's own market analysts always use ProRealTime and never the Web platform.

[dmedin]

I'm starting to think those countries that ban 'little folk' from dealing with financial instruments they don't fully understand have the right idea.

[nit2wynit]

On 05/09/2019 at 15:01, dmedin said:

I'm starting to think those countries that ban 'little folk' from dealing with financial instruments they don't fully understand have the right idea.

I think we're just not doing it right.

Back to my old tricks on the Demo.  All less that £1000 margin.  Stop at Support or £50-£100.  Never let it go Full Stop.

Loads to be had on Autolus today.  Could have cleared my Losses.

Searched thru the Market for Gappers of 5% or more.  Got the chart up.  Got in, got out.  

Why can't I do this Live????

 

[dmedin]

@nit2wynit There are tools and programs that claim to help scan the market and find opportunities, but they cost money.  I don't like paying for something unless I have a good idea of how effective it is first.  I'd hate to invest real time, money and effort into something only to realize that I am no better off than if I'd tossed a coin or used some simple method.

[nit2wynit]

1 minute ago, dmedin said:

There are tools and programs that claim to help scan the market and find opportunities, but they cost money.  I don't like paying for something unless I have a good idea of how effective it is first.  I'd hate to invest real time, money and effort into something only to realize that I am no better off than if I'd tossed a coin or used some simple method.

Yeah there are for sure.  But i too have hesitated to find and utilise them.  It's a futile endevour when most of the small cap stock is unavailable to trade so even if i had a scanner i can't access them.  The best I can hope for is to go thru the entire US stock 5 mins before open to see if i can spot a breakout potential.  I say US coz it means I have the entire morning to do other things.  That's the benefit of being in the UK.

I've about 20 screen shots since April of my success on the Demo.

I think everyone is assuming I'm just using 100k and using massive stops and somehow it's working out.  I'm not.  I still use SR points to get in.  I still practice with 1 or 2k account limit.

What I've failed to do or succeeded to do is allow myself to become distracted from my goal. i.e.

Find breakout potential.  Plot SL areas, buy the 1st dip sell the rise.

I've posted 4 Stocks this week that were worth over 2k with only a 1k account.  All 4 were winners.

It must account for something.  

[dmedin]

@nit2wynit Did you try out ProRealtime?  It is sooo much faster than IG's web platform.

[nit2wynit]

6 hours ago, dmedin said:

@nit2wynit Did you try out ProRealtime?  It is sooo much faster than IG's web platform.

I never did.  I asked them what the costs were but got the run around.  they said Free if to make more than Ten trades per month OR if the value of your trades was low then you pay.  I asked 'What is Low' and they couldn't tell me....

WTF!

So you use PRT?