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Is spread betting for fools?

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4 hours ago, DSchenk said:

Good man @dmedin. Live or demo?

How's @nit2wynit doing?

From next week I'm gonna jump back into the small account challenge on Demo again. Not worth doing it here in SEA, cause US market open is too late. Not having the head to trade at like 21.30 at night.

Think my plan is gonna be to grow to £1000 with the initial £500, then try the same on live.
If it's not working out, might switch solely to long term investing, trend following, buying the dip in blue-chips, etc.
Smaller returns, but at least not losing cash like in day trading, haha

Looking forward to your finding. 

Keep us updated @DSchenk 😁

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10 hours ago, DSchenk said:

Good man @dmedin. Live or demo?

How's @nit2wynit doing?

From next week I'm gonna jump back into the small account challenge on Demo again. Not worth doing it here in SEA, cause US market open is too late. Not having the head to trade at like 21.30 at night.

Think my plan is gonna be to grow to £1000 with the initial £500, then try the same on live.
If it's not working out, might switch solely to long term investing, trend following, buying the dip in blue-chips, etc.
Smaller returns, but at least not losing cash like in day trading, haha

Check your idea there bud.  It took me 2 days to make £500 with £500.  Not enough time to prive it all.  I grew 3500 to £1250 in 4 days.  But I've decided to go right down to the minimum account size of £250 or £500 I'm not fully sure yet (Demo) and grow it to £5k.  I want at least 20 trades proven before i go live again.

Missed it again today.  Too late to do any research.  I'll get the charts up and see what happens :D

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There's one in the bag.  Clovis Oncology.  +£80 in 5 seconds.  £499 Margin.  £57 Stop at R1

 

Done for now.  :D

 

Edit:  Oops, Slippage.  £89 :D

Edited by nit2wynit
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On 12/04/2019 at 18:46, TrendFollower said:

@nit2wynit,

I agree with @Caseynotes in that start with the smallest bet size and if the trade moves in your favour and you are trading with a trend getting stronger then you can always add to your position on any dips. For now I would suggest stating at the lowest amount possible and building a position based on strength. 

In terms of picking an asset then it really depends on which market you have a better passion for, a better understanding in, a greater interest in, etc. There will be volatility in all different assets whether they are indices, FX, commodities, etc. I would avoid Cryptocurrencies unless you can stomach 'gut wrenching' volatility! Not all traders can.

The 'elephant in the room' is stop losses and your risk tolerance and risk management strategy. If you are a day trader or short term trader then I can understand the need for tight stop losses to ensure you make lots of small profits. I get that. If you are a trend follower like me who holds positions for days, weeks and months to ride the longer term trend, a tight stop loss is no good. It needs to be more wider. Traders have to determine their time frame and set their stop losses accordingly. A lot of traders get into a pickle with this. They are trading the right asset at the right time but volatility is stopping them out. Having a wider stop loss is not all bad if you are trading on the right side of the trend and the trend is getting stronger in your favour. Once in profit then a trailing stop can be set ensuring you always exit with a profit. It is when the trade moves against you due to inefficient entry points that makes stop losses crucial. A trader can only get away with making lots of small losses if they make a few big profits which covers the losses as well. Otherwise all a trader has to show for is lots of small losses. This leads to a slow death!

This is where a trading plan, trading strategy and trading system is crucial. There are still many traders that have neither of these things and these are the traders that seem to struggle when it comes to trading. 

Can I say I normally as day trader  90% dont use stops but only if i'm in front of the charts! Yes this can be very naughty however most of my trades gets to my limits/profit as I am not greedy.  If I do place a stop loss in anyone of my trades it seesm to hit it.... I have come to realise and agree with casynotes that if you use stops must be quite wide and take lower position. I do have a strategy plan the main ones that helps me in profit is strong trends and scalping but aways study the  charts 1st never ever at a whim as that is taken a gamble. Hope this helpes:Ok Started with 20k demo now I am at 113k in 7 months but as my capital got bigger so did my positions hence the account got bigger.

Now I feel I am ready to go live!!!

Couple or more questions: If anyone can help and advise? 

So now that I have a plan to full on I am thinking of how much to start with in my capital?

2k or 20k Ok....

if I start with 2k do you think this is rerealistic to build on this?

If I start with 20k does this make better sence as you need leverage?

Next: I have opted for the Aussie account due to low margins however it's only on CFDs only therefore I would be subject to tax right? I would much prefer a Uk spread betteing account but as we all know about esma rule the margins are just redicloius. I will appreciate any feed back.

Regards Trev.   

Edited by Trevbeats
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15 minutes ago, Trevbeats said:

Next: I have opted for the Aussie account due to low margins however it's only on CFDs only therefore I would be subject to tax right? I would much prefer a Uk spread betteing account but as we all know about esma rule the margins are just redicloius. I will appreciate any feed back.

Can you set up two accounts, one in Australia and the other in the UK?

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13 hours ago, Trevbeats said:

Now I feel I am ready to go live!!!

Couple or more questions: If anyone can help and advise? 

So now that I have a plan to full on I am thinking of how much to start with in my capital?

2k or 20k Ok....

if I start with 2k do you think this is rerealistic to build on this?

If I start with 20k does this make better sence as you need leverage?

Next: I have opted for the Aussie account due to low margins however it's only on CFDs only therefore I would be subject to tax right? I would much prefer a Uk spread betteing account but as we all know about esma rule the margins are just redicloius. I will appreciate any feed back.

Regards Trev.   

Great going Trev, couple of points, with regards to the Oz low margins be aware that the Australian regulators are currently in the process of bring Oz regulation into line with ESMA, so the low margins won't last much longer and in fact some of their proposals are even tougher the ESMA so there won't be any reason to hold an Oz account in the near future.

With regards to starting live and how much capital I would suggest that you need to think in terms of starting over from scratch as you will find live is very different to demo with it's own new problems to deal with. So once again start with low capital and low bet size with a view to building up as you gain experience on the live platform.

Best of luck.

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Thanks buddy for your feed back.

It seems that I am running away from one account to another? If the ozzi esma rule comes into play what will be left to switch too SWISS? I will need a large cap if i go back to uk account and spreads would be more likly as no tax is involed.

Just my luck I am so getting ready to fire the trigger "live" but it is  going against me again!

3 years of study I hope it is not wasted...Can I ask do you trade? and if so what set up account do you hold?

I know how to trade got my plan ready; however retail traders are getting the push out of this market...seems all one sided from the big banks.

 

Trev.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Trevbeats said:

Thanks buddy for your feed back.

It seems that I am running away from one account to another? If the ozzi esma rule comes into play what will be left to switch too SWISS? I will need a large cap if i go back to uk account and spreads would be more likly as no tax is involed.

Just my luck I am so getting ready to fire the trigger "live" but it is  going against me again!

3 years of study I hope it is not wasted...Can I ask do you trade? and if so what set up account do you hold?

I know how to trade got my plan ready; however retail traders are getting the push out of this market...seems all one sided from the big banks.

 

Trev.

 

 

 

3 years not wasted at all, the whole point is to find a system that works and then use it to build an account, you always want to start small so if it fails you are not wasting too much time or money before moving on to something else. So it's like compounding, starting small just takes a little longer in the early stages but if the system works then it must grow. Many have found that being successful on demo doesn't mean being successful live, in fact it's probably only halfway there. If the system can only work with massive leverage then it's probably not really going to work live for the duration anyway but regardless, there is only one way to find out.

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57 minutes ago, Trevbeats said:

3 years of study I hope it is not wasted.

 

Suppose you'd bought shares in an S&P 500-tracking ETF and left it for three years.  The value of your shares would have increased and you'd have extra money in the form of quarterly dividends.  And that's without doing any work at all (except perhaps reinvesting your dividends twice a year).

The question I often ask myself is, will three years of trading perform as well or better?  Because if it can't, then what's the point in doing it?

Edited by dmedin
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3 hours ago, dmedin said:

 

Suppose you'd bought shares in an S&P 500-tracking ETF and left it for three years.  The value of your shares would have increased and you'd have extra money in the form of quarterly dividends.  And that's without doing any work at all (except perhaps reinvesting your dividends twice a year).

The question I often ask myself is, will three years of trading perform as well or better?  Because if it can't, then what's the point in doing it?

 

3 hours ago, dmedin said:

 

Suppose you'd bought shares in an S&P 500-tracking ETF and left it for three years.  The value of your shares would have increased and you'd have extra money in the form of quarterly dividends.  And that's without doing any work at all (except perhaps reinvesting your dividends twice a year).

The question I often ask myself is, will three years of trading perform as well or better?  Because if it can't, then what's the point in doing it?

Yes does make you think,  but I’m sure the %out ways doing it for yourself....I wonder if one could ask the question out of all the IG clients how many of them do well if done correctly at trading. Are you trading now and with which account uk all overseas if you don’t mind me asking.

regards

Trev..

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27 minutes ago, Trevbeats said:

re you trading now and with which account uk all overseas if you don’t mind me asking

I am trading, have been for about a year.   I've got a UK account yes.  When you set up an account with a UK broker now you have to provide a National Insurance number, I don't remember having to do that last year.

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1 hour ago, dmedin said:

I am trading, have been for about a year.   I've got a UK account yes.  When you set up an account with a UK broker now you have to provide a National Insurance number, I don't remember having to do that last year.

I see I guess that’s because of tax reasons....? I heard if it’s a spread betting no tax will come back and bite you but if it’s cfd account then your liable.. how are you doing hope your in the money.  I going live soon, it’s just the high margins in a uk account which puts you off.....esma rule...graaaa.

TRev

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@Trevbeats  I always use Stops and never more than 10% of my account size.  Today I'll be using the Demo again and 'Trade Ideas' as a Scanner.  Though I've left it a little late to input my Scanner Data.

Let's see what today brings with a £500 Margin/Account size.
 

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After a year I now know enough to be able to say that SB isn't for fools, but active trading per se certainly is.

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That is good to here Dmedin. If it is done right yes you can do well. My only gripe atm is I have switch from ozzi acount  to a Uk spread account. However finding realy tricky to trade on a 10k account as margins are just stupid!   where as margins are so much better to trade with overseas and done realy well ITM. Maybe i should of stuck with the uk acount when the esma rule kicked in last year. That been said I can still trade with the ozzi account but the word is esma ozzie rule is coming tho them as well. Help ?

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15 hours ago, nit2wynit said:

@Trevbeats  I always use Stops and never more than 10% of my account size.  Today I'll be using the Demo again and 'Trade Ideas' as a Scanner.  Though I've left it a little late to input my Scanner Data.

Let's see what today brings with a £500 Margin/Account size.
 

£500 Margin/Acccount size ? Please explain 

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22 hours ago, Trevbeats said:

The bottom line is you’re making any money...Am I missing something?

yes, shame but just seen the vid has been pulled probably due to copyright as it was lifted from a documentary.

So the trader was saying how much he loved trading and he looked at the charts and trades just came to him, they just felt right and they always seemed to come off and then the wife spoils it all by reminding him that he's not actually making any money.

Truly most don't have a verified rules based trade entry action plan but instead rely on hopes, dreams and fantasy 🙂

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1 hour ago, Caseynotes said:

the wife spoils it all by reminding him that he's not actually making any money.

 

lol!  Maybe I need a wife.

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On 22/11/2019 at 13:52, Trevbeats said:

The bottom line is you’re making any money

 

It's not just about making money, but whether active trading beats other strategies - the only strategy that has come anywhere close to being 'proven' for retail clients is to buy and hold diversified/market replicating stocks over the long term.

Edited by dmedin

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On 22/11/2019 at 06:02, Trevbeats said:

£500 Margin/Acccount size ? Please explain 

I'm practicing on the Demo with only £500 account size.  I pick  stocks that are Gapping 5% or more Pre-Market.  If i have £500 account size then i use my full £500 as my Margin.  I look for Breakouts only.

Edited by nit2wynit
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Ok sounds like a good plan. Are you working on a SB or CFD Micro or Macro? and if so to any is it a UK account buddy.

 

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4 hours ago, Trevbeats said:

Ok sounds like a good plan. Are you working on a SB or CFD Micro or Macro? and if so to any is it a UK account buddy.

 

Yeah I'm in UK pal.  Spread Betting.  Looking for Breakouts on US 2.30 open.  Why not follow our Progress on the other thread below?  we're just getting started. :D

 

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Guest bdp

Any strategy which involves being long on diverse equities most of the time will make money in the long run. So stay mostly long in equities and you'll win in the end. It might be hard to believe this in the midst of the COVID 19 crisis but it is probably true!

To say "spread betting doesn't work" is like saying "pensions don't work". Obviously, both work - because major markets climb inevitably higher in the long run. It's just that spread betting generally fails because people use short term scalping strategies. When you do this, "the house always wins" - well, almost always, due to spreads.

But stay long, buy and hold, and you become the one that always wins. The chief skill in this is simply developing a good exit strategy - setting appropriate stop losses -- and of course in deciding when to get back on the horse after a fall.

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I know I will be crucified for this, keep hearing of this 19% winners = 81% losers, that's about the same odds as a fruit machine. Regardless of the money management, Trading Plan, Trading Strategy, Trading Systems that clients might put in place, its a gamble, dont be fooled that you are trading, or investing, you are gambling. The market is virtually impossible to predict, the big boys, (JP Morgan, Blackrock) cant even get it spot on), The Dow at this moment is trading 15% above what the market was 3 years ago and I cant remember the markets being effected by anything we have going on these days. Strategies, management and plans are words that have been banded around for decades around casinos long before spread betting came into the realm and Casinos are still getting bigger and richer..

I had a friend (sadly passed away), worked for JPS morgan, a professor of physics, he studied charts and trends and relayed his finding to the trading floor, his advice to me was dont deal in the market as he never bought a single share in the 7 years he worked there. Didn't listen, I still ending up losing a few hundred.

IG are not robbing people, they just provide a gambling environment, you can buy £50,000 of BT paper shares, suddenly bad figures come in and your sitting on a £5,000 loss..

What I will leave you with:

Gamble responsibly ( dont let it govern, rule or ruin your life)
Have fun ( you dont go to a casino to get stressed and upset, so why do that when you spread bet)
The House always wins (or else it wouldn't be in the game)

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On 23/03/2020 at 20:29, Guest bdp said:

Any strategy which involves being long on diverse equities most of the time will make money in the long run. So stay mostly long in equities and you'll win in the end. It might be hard to believe this in the midst of the COVID 19 crisis but it is probably true!

To say "spread betting doesn't work" is like saying "pensions don't work". Obviously, both work - because major markets climb inevitably higher in the long run. It's just that spread betting generally fails because people use short term scalping strategies. When you do this, "the house always wins" - well, almost always, due to spreads.

But stay long, buy and hold, and you become the one that always wins. The chief skill in this is simply developing a good exit strategy - setting appropriate stop losses -- and of course in deciding when to get back on the horse after a fall.

Spread betting is a uniquely poor vehicle for what you're suggesting (buying and holding), even if you are using futures you will be missing out on dividend payments and it would be far better to use options than stop losses, which will get hit most of the time.

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Posted (edited)

Trading and investing are both b*llocks ... leave it to the professionals.  The kind of people who actually enjoy sitting on their spreadsheets and analysing book value.

76% of 'punters' lose :D  - I've no idea where they get that figure from but I can tell you that it's higher than that.

Edited by dmedin

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Yep. more like 95% of people. Remember lots just break even only. That leaves 5%. And out of that only 1-2 % IMHo actually make money because they have the 'knowledge' via experience and MONEY. You need a large account to make money, otherwise pocket money, unless you start gambling.

 

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