Jump to content

Trade Planning and Testing


Recommended Posts

On 11/08/2020 at 15:01, dmedin said:

I did the same thing on Dax, Tom, and got a similar win rate (49%)

This is the running equity position, based on points :D It's wonderful!  I'm already trading this system on multiple markets

2020-08-11_13-58-23.jpg.ea80a32100f1624d80865bdfe6183140.jpg

Sell it to Jim Simons for a million or two🤑

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/jim-simons-renaissance-technologies-rentech-apple-amazon-tesla-stock-2020-8-1029504458#

  • Great! 1
Link to comment
1 hour ago, dmedin said:

The Pine editor in Tradingview is great!  Just tested the simplest strategy on daily Ocado share price: buy when 10 SMA crosses 50 SMA and sell the inverse.  Clicked a button and it ran a backtest and gave me the results: 619.00 net profit from 62 trades, of which about 34% were profitable.  :P 

see the importance of stats, without the full data picture you would have noticed that the win rate was low and just moved on to something else, forever going round in circles.

Edited by Caseynotes
  • Like 2
Link to comment
9 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

see the importance of stats, without the full data picture you would have noticed that the win rate was low and just moved on to something else, forever going round in circles.

 

Yes, it is an absolutely vital element :) None of the old trading books mentioned it.

Link to comment

I've been falling into the trap of trading outside of my 'plan' and it almost always results in losses.

The other thing I realized is that when backtesting I was effectively ignoring the news and events and just going off the indicator.  That means there is really no reason to be at the trading all day long and checking for events as I don't trade them.  I can literally not read any financial or economic information whatsoever and simply place trades based on the indicators.

Some of my backtested trades last between eight days and four weeks.  It's easy to let a backtested trade last for four weeks (and then ultimately make a loss in some cases) than it is to be checking up on it every hour of every day for four weeks live :) 

Edited by dmedin
Link to comment

100 backtests of the U.S. dollar index, H4 timeframe with R:R of 1:1.5 gives

53% win rate

25.61 points

But the first trade is in October 2015, and the last trade is dated 3rd August this year! 

And for 2019, the account lost money!  That would take a fair bit of patience to endure in 'real time'!

Time to test hourly ...

And then try optimizing and tweaking things 🤯

Edited by dmedin
Link to comment

There are so many other indicators I have to test.  And other variables to consider for example the slope of the 200 EMA.  And then of course I will eventually have to start writing Pine scripts and backtest shares.  Oh I have many hours of work ahead of me 🤯💨

Link to comment
18 hours ago, dmedin said:

Any tips, Tom? 🤓

yes, starting a new thread would be choice.

you don't want to trade the US basket so don't do a test on it.

your system needs to be practical, if there are too few trades then it needs to work on many multiple markets so forget testing over multiple years and test multiple markets instead.

what does 25.61 points mean? you don't mean you gained 25 and a half points on 50 winning trades.

  • Great! 1
Link to comment
2 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

your system needs to be practical, if there are too few trades then it needs to work on many multiple markets so forget testing over multiple years and test multiple markets instead.

:)

I've done 50 trades on EUR/USD so far, hourly with 1:1.5 and it's profitable, and will do all 100 and then try other pairs.

With forex, if betting £1 per point then it doesn't really justify the effort ... would need to trade multiple pairs as you say or bet more pounds per point 🤑

1:1.5 works better with forex so far, as it doesn't trend as nicely as indices do :D

Link to comment
24 minutes ago, dmedin said:

EUR/USD, hourly time frame, 1:1.5, 100 trades, 50% win rate, 479.4 pips profit but with a significant period of drawdown.  

No point starting a new thread so I'll keep all future results, tweaks and optimizations to myself :)

 

these figures are meaningless because you have not bothered to state exactly what it is you are testing.

why not start a new thread setting out what it is you are testing and then show the results, - that would actually be useful.

but watch out, there's a troll on this forum who likes to wade in and highjack threads and steer them towards their own ends, ... oh wait 👀

Link to comment

Hey guys,

When back testing a new "idea", what are you doing about the recent market moves since March?

I backtest over multiple years of data, but use a validation/holdout dataset of the final 10% of data points to confirm the idea actually works. However, the recent market moves are starting to make up a larger and larger amount of this validation set.

This means I can create a great model, that generates good PnL over several years, but I should reject it, as it performs poorly due to Covid.

Any questions, let me know!

J

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Bopperz said:

Hey guys,

When back testing a new "idea", what are you doing about the recent market moves since March?

I backtest over multiple years of data, but use a validation/holdout dataset of the final 10% of data points to confirm the idea actually works. However, the recent market moves are starting to make up a larger and larger amount of this validation set.

This means I can create a great model, that generates good PnL over several years, but I should reject it, as it performs poorly due to Covid.

Any questions, let me know!

J

 

What's a 'validation set'?

Test it 100 times and find a win rate is all I do.

Obviously that is not 'sophisticated' enough :D 

Link to comment
1 minute ago, dmedin said:

 

What's a 'validation set'?

Test it 100 times and find a win rate is all I do.

Obviously that is not 'sophisticated' enough :D 

Its a bit of data that I never look at, so I cant cheat. The problem is, if you study a price chart long enough you will find something that works. To get around this problem, I test the theory on this unseen data to see if it still performs.

Imagine you were using a SMA cross over strategy and trying out different averaging periods. How would you know that 12 day vs 50 day was the best setup? If you used all your data, you would never know if you had just overfitted to your dataset. Your model may just work really well on past data and not generalise to new data.

  • Great! 1
Link to comment
12 minutes ago, Bopperz said:

Its a bit of data that I never look at, so I cant cheat. The problem is, if you study a price chart long enough you will find something that works. To get around this problem, I test the theory on this unseen data to see if it still performs.

Imagine you were using a SMA cross over strategy and trying out different averaging periods. How would you know that 12 day vs 50 day was the best setup? If you used all your data, you would never know if you had just overfitted to your dataset. Your model may just work really well on past data and not generalise to new data.

That's a great idea!

Link to comment

@Kodiak

In a previous post you said that when testing a system, you should 'exclude' the coronavirus event.

I just wanted to suggest that perhaps you should focus on building a trend-following system.  Such a system will give you the biggest profits when the market is strongly trending.  Hence, you don't need to 'exclude' any 'events'.  You just need to trade your signals.

That's all 🙂

 

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

So I really screwed up lately by not following my plan.  Sheer impatience, impulsiveness and stupidity.  I suppose I am not psychologically stable enough to trade patiently and consistently.

I made a new resolution to read over my entire trading plan first thing in the morning before I put any trades on.  Hopefully that will help a bit.

Link to comment
17 hours ago, dmedin said:

So I really screwed up lately by not following my plan.  Sheer impatience, impulsiveness and stupidity.  I suppose I am not psychologically stable enough to trade patiently and consistently.

I made a new resolution to read over my entire trading plan first thing in the morning before I put any trades on.  Hopefully that will help a bit.

Can automation help? If the trading plan is solid, and can be expressed in code. It can remove some of the mental problems.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
4 minutes ago, Bopperz said:

Can automation help? If the trading plan is solid, and can be expressed in code. It can remove some of the mental problems.

yes automation can help but should not be necessary, the psych issues are caused by a lack of confidence in your system but proper testing will overcome that. If you have proved to yourself that so long as you stick to your rules and the system works on backtesting, forward testing on demo and testing on a live account at minimum position size then you will have the confidence. And though you won't win every trade you'll know you'll win a high enough percentage to be profitable. 

Bots are helpful and can cover many markets 24 hrs but you still need to prove the system actually works in the first place.

747129852_buysell2.png.aeac5b850c8c1c1c52b2d837e2ab9b00.png

 

  • Great! 1
Link to comment
16 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

forward testing on demo and testing on a live account at minimum position size then you will have the confidence

 

I haven't tried 'backesting' trading with pivots.

The basic system that will give a 50% (slightly better or slightly worse) rate could be fully automated I think.  

Buy:

Price > 200 EMA

MACD crosses above signal line from below 0

PSAR is below price

Stop loss: x number of points below PSAR

Take profit: 1.5 times the size of the stop loss

Sell:

Opposite of above

 

But this can be tweaked and modified, because on its own it's very unsatisfactory (it will leave you out of most long-running trends).  I suppose you could have the basic system automated and delve in to do discretionary trading as well.  

I'm sure I could automate and backtest that very basic system using the Pine editor on TradingView 🤓

Edited by dmedin
  • Like 1
Link to comment
1 minute ago, dmedin said:

 

I haven't tried 'backesting' trading with pivots.

The basic system that will give a 50% (slightly better or slightly worse) rate could be fully automated I think.  

Buy:

Price > 200 EMA

MACD crosses above signal line from below 0

PSAR is below price

Stop loss: x number of points below PSAR

Take profit: 1.5 times the size of the stop loss

Sell:

Opposite of above

 

But this can be tweaked and modified, because on its own it's very unsatisfactory (it will leave you out of most long-running trends).  I suppose you could have the basic system automated and delve in to do discretionary trading as well.  

I'm sure I could automate and backtest that very basic system using the Pine editor on TradingView 🤓

the point of pivots is that they are recognisable boundaries to everyone so you don't want to open a trade going into them but rather going away from them and then use the next one as a target. If you already have an open trade heading towards one be prepared to bail if there is to be a reversal but hope for a charge on through instead.

The system needs to have a precise trigger for entry and then one or two filter indicators who's job it is to keep you out of more bad trades than good ones, it's annoying when they keep you out of a good trade but the important point is the probabilities of outcomes over x number of trades not the result of any one trade.

 

  • Great! 1
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • image.png

  • Posts

    • Natural Gas Elliott Wave Analysis Natural Gas is currently recovering from its August 2024 low, but technical indicators suggest that the commodity may soon face resistance, continuing the bearish trend from its June 2024 high. This analysis will provide insights from an Elliott Wave perspective, detailing the potential for further downside and the key levels to watch in the coming weeks.   Long-Term Chart Analysis On the daily chart, Natural Gas has been in a long-term downtrend since reaching a peak near $10 in August 2022. This downtrend is unfolding as a corrective a-b-c pattern of the cycle degree. The first leg of this correction, labeled wave a, completed around the $4.77 level. Following that, the market rallied in wave b, which topped out near $7.61.   Since November 2022, Natural Gas has been in the final leg of this corrective structure, progressing within an ending diagonal pattern in wave c. Ending diagonals typically indicate the final phase of a larger correction, suggesting that this bearish move may be nearing its conclusion. However, the market still has further downside potential before a major bottom is in place. The current phase of this correction is the fifth and final leg of the ending diagonal, labeled wave 5 (circled). This leg is unfolding as a three-wave structure and is expected to break below the previous low of wave 3 (circled), which was at 1.524. Once wave 5 (circled) completes, the entire a-b-c corrective pattern should also conclude, potentially signaling the end of the long-term downtrend. A significant reversal could then follow, setting the stage for a longer-term bullish phase.   Daily Chart Analysis The daily chart confirms that Natural Gas is currently in the 5th wave of the diagonal pattern, and this leg appears to be developing in a three-wave structure. The market is likely to experience further downside pressure, especially as it approaches and breaks below the 1.524 low from wave 3 (circled). A continuation of this bearish momentum could result in the final leg of wave 5 (circled), completing the larger correction. H4 Chart Analysis Zooming into the H4 chart, we see more detailed insights into the recent price action. Wave (A) of the current decline completed as an impulse sequence at 1.88 in early August 2024, marking the first leg of the larger move down. This was followed by a corrective bounce in wave (B), which appears to have formed an irregular flat pattern. Wave A of this flat correction finished on August 15, 2024, and wave B then broke below the starting price of wave A before ending at the August 2024 low. Wave C of (B) is now developing, but the price action remains choppy, especially near the top. Given the structure of the wave, the most probable outcome is an ending diagonal pattern for wave C. However, the structure remains somewhat unclear, and it would be prudent to wait for a break below the low of wave B to confirm the resumption of the bearish trend. Once wave C of (B) completes, the market is expected to resume its downward move, continuing the larger bearish sequence that began in June 2024. The break of wave B’s low will be a key signal that bearish dominance has returned and that the final leg of the ending diagonal in wave 5 (circled) is underway. Conclusion Natural Gas is currently in the final phase of a long-term corrective pattern, with further downside expected before the trend reverses. The Elliott Wave structure suggests that wave 5 (circled) of the ongoing diagonal pattern is still in progress, and a break below 1.524 is likely in the near future. On the H4 chart, the structure remains tricky, but once the low of wave B is breached, the bearish trend should resume with force. Traders should remain cautious but prepare for a potential buying opportunity once the final leg of this correction completes.   Technical Analyst : Sanmi Adeagbo Source : Tradinglounge.com get trial here!  
    • Deere & Co. (DE) Daily Chart DE Elliott Wave Technical Analysis FUNCTION: Trend MODE: Impulsive STRUCTURE: Motive POSITION: Wave 2 of (5) DIRECTION: Upside in 3 DETAILS: We are analyzing the potential bottom of a prolonged wave (4), as DE has approached the $400 level. We expect further upward movement to confirm the overall bullish bias. DE Elliott Wave Analysis Trading Lounge 1H Chart, Deere & Co. (DE) 1H Chart DE Elliott Wave Technical Analysis FUNCTION: Trend MODE: Impulsive STRUCTURE: Motive POSITION: Wave {i} of 3 DIRECTION: Upside in wave {iii} DETAILS: In this shorter time frame, we are exploring the possibility that wave 2 is complete and that DE is moving higher. We can clearly identify a three-wave correction in wave 2, and the increasing volume during the upward move confirms the potential for further upside in wave {iii}. Welcome to the Elliott Wave Analysis for Deere & Co. (DE). This analysis offers an in-depth look at DE's price action using Elliott Wave Theory, helping traders to make informed decisions based on current market structure. We will break down both the daily and 1-hour charts to provide a comprehensive outlook. DE Elliott Wave Technical Analysis – Daily Chart On the daily chart, Deere & Co. is displaying an impulsive trend. DE is currently in Wave 2 of Intermediate wave (5). There is a potential for a bottom formation in Wave (4) around the significant $400 support level. This zone is critical for confirming the expected upward trend. DE Elliott Wave Technical Analysis – 1H Chart In the 1-hour chart, Deere & Co. is progressing in Wave {i} of 3, indicating the beginning of an impulsive upward movement. The recent corrective Wave 2 seems to have concluded, as the chart shows a clear three-wave structure. The increase in trading volume during this upward move strengthens the possibility that DE has entered Wave {iii}, often the strongest and most dynamic phase of an impulsive wave. Technical Analyst : Alessio Barretta Source : Tradinglounge.com get trial here!  
    • TATA MOTORS – Daily Chart Analysis Elliott Wave Technical Analysis Function: Counter Trend (Minute degree, Navy) Mode: Motive Structure: Potential Impulse within a larger degree corrective wave Position: Minute Wave ((iii)) Navy Details: Minute Wave ((iii)) Navy progressing lower within Minor Wave 1 or A against 1145-50. Invalidation point: 1145-50 Elliott Wave Analyst: Harsh Japee TATA Motors Daily Chart Technical Analysis and Potential Elliott Wave Counts: The wave structure of TATA Motors seems to be changing since the last week's update, with the stock breaking below the 1011 interim support. An alternative scenario might be unfolding with Intermediate Wave (5) Orange now likely complete around the 1180 high. Since the lows registered in December 2022, around the 375-80 range, the stock has rallied, subdividing into an impulse. Intermediate Wave (5) might have ended, and the stock remains under control as long as it stays below 1180. The Elliott Channel resistance has remained slightly below the 1180 level. If the current wave structure holds, TATA Motors is expected to stay under 1180 and move lower towards the 850-55 zone. This movement would signify the end of Minor Wave 4, indicating a potential deeper correction ahead. TATA MOTORS – 4H Chart Analysis Elliott Wave / Technical Analysis Function: Counter Trend (Minute degree, Navy) Mode: Motive Structure: Potential Impulse within a larger degree corrective wave Position: Minute Wave ((iii)) Navy Details: Minute Wave ((iii)) Navy progressing lower within Minor Wave 1 or A against 1145-50. Target: 855 in the medium term Invalidation point: 1145-50 TATA Motors 4H Chart Technical Analysis and Potential Elliott Wave Counts: The TATA Motors 4H chart has been adjusted accordingly, indicating that Wave (5) may have terminated around the 1180 high, which was registered on July 30, 2024. Additionally, Minor Wave 5 Grey could have subdivided into five waves, leading to its termination near 1180. Minute Waves ((i)) and ((ii)) have likely completed around the 1011 and 1045-50 range, respectively. If this analysis holds, the price should drop towards the 850 level as Minute Wave ((iii)) Navy progresses, while staying below the 1145-50 range. Conclusion: TATA Motors could be moving lower within Minute Wave ((iii)) Navy of Minor Wave 1 Grey, against the 1145-50 level. Elliott Wave Analyst: Harsh Japee Source : Tradinglounge.com get trial here!  
×
×
  • Create New...
us