Increased spreads

[Molibar]

The new increased spreads have taken trading out of spread betting, now it's only betting. Virtually impossible to day trade. Examples during normal trading hours; DAX (DY) has 6-7 points, Wall Street (YM) has 12 points. This has been the case the last week, and when contacting IG for clarification and further information the person in the call centre didn't see why those spreads are unacceptable. My friends who are trading futures contracts are just laughing at me..

This is copied from their online spread information, and doesn't even vaguely correspond to the actual spreads.
https://www.ig.com/ie/markets/indices/indices-spread-bet-product-details

Anyone heard anything from IG on this? Anyone noticing this, or is it just me?

Regards,
Molibar

[dmedin]

lol totally disagree, but sorry to hear that you can't scalp on 1 minute chart as effectively any more.

Maybe there are other things to be worrying about?

[Molibar]

7 minutes ago, dmedin said:

lol totally disagree, but sorry to hear that you can't scalp on 1 minute chart as effectively any more.

What time frames do you trade on?

Regards,
Molibar

[dmedin]

33 minutes ago, Molibar said:

What time frames do you trade on?

Regards,
Molibar

 

Higher time frame = more reliable signal = increased chance of making money.

Daily for direction and four hour for precision 👍 

[Caseynotes]

8 hours ago, dmedin said:

 

Higher time frame = more reliable signal = increased chance of making money.

Daily for direction and four hour for precision 👍 

The reliability of signals is constant no matter the time frame, what differs is the duration of the move the signal indicates, shorter duration on a shorter time frame and longer on a longer time frame.

[Caseynotes]

8 hours ago, dmedin said:

 

Higher time frame = more reliable signal = increased chance of making money.

Daily for direction and four hour for precision 👍 

If your target is just 20 points then a 7 point spread rather than the normal 1 point is significant but the other factor is the reason for the increased spread and that is increased volatility which means any move is more likely to run further than during times of normal volatility so an increased target should be considered.

[Kodiak]

Smaller bet size and wider stops

At least 100 point on Dax and 200 on Dow

[ItsAlex]

Hi Molibar, your futures traders friends are right to laugh at you.

The spread on the ES (in IG US500) increased by a lot (1.0 vs 0.4) although the spreads on the e-mini ES june contract traded on the CME exchange are back to normal values 0.25 bid/ask (last week was 0.75c), yet IG still charge the large spreads. There is no justification for it this time. The IG retail fanboys who never traded a single future contract in their life will tell you this is normal.

On 21/03/2020 at 22:44, Molibar said:

My friends who are trading futures contracts are just laughing at me..

 

Edited March 23, 2020 by ItsAlex

[Guest glunter]

Open an account with corespreads.

 

Dax 1 point spread

CAC 0.7 point spread

[Molibar]

On 31/03/2020 at 09:24, Guest glunter said:

Open an account with corespreads.

 

Dax 1 point spread

CAC 0.7 point spread

On 22/03/2020 at 07:52, Caseynotes said:

If your target is just 20 points then a 7 point spread rather than the normal 1 point is significant but the other factor is the reason for the increased spread and that is increased volatility which means any move is more likely to run further than during times of normal volatility so an increased target should be considered.

Wow Guest, you're right, just checked out their real-time spreads, and they have tight spreads.. ..well, the same spreads as IG used to have. Now IG is 4-10 times more expensive on DAX, depending on what day you compare with.

I'm going to create an account on Core Spreads now, and see how long it will take before I can move over there. I like IG's free ProRealTime platform, but I can move over to MT4 if push comes to shove!

---
Caseynotes - Yes, I could trade the monthly time frame too, but I'd rather do that on Core Spreads with a 5th the spread:).. I think IG just lost me as a client.

Regards,
Molibar

[Caseynotes]

2 minutes ago, Molibar said:

Wow Guest, you're right, just checked out their real-time spreads, and they have tight spreads.. ..well, the same spreads as IG used to have. Now IG is 4-10 times more expensive on DAX, depending on what day you compare with.

I'm going to create an account on Core Spreads now, and see how long it will take before I can move over there. I like IG's free ProRealTime platform, but I can move over to MT4 if push comes to shove!

---
Caseynotes - Yes, I could trade the monthly time frame too, but I'd rather do that on Core Spreads with a 5th the spread:).. I think IG just lost me as a client.

Regards,
Molibar

not sure what monthly time frame has to do with it, Dax currently 3.5 point spread as opposed to 1 during normal times. Good luck with your new broker, I've never heard of them so they must be small, I do hope they don't go bust on you during these turbulent times.

[BigDeal]

I use 3 brokers, one of which is Core Spreads. All brokers have their own benefits and I don't think anybody serious about trading should only deal with one firm.   The big plus of CS is that they do fix their spreads which at the moment, for me and many others is a godsend. (We were guests at the family raceday at Plumpton last year which they sponsor so I can vouch for them being genuine and no this is not a veiled advert for their services).

Since I trade indices and hedge every trade, placing business with IG (or ETX who are even worse at the moment!) is impractical with the wide spreads.

I understand IG's argument for increasing the spreads at the moment BUT this part of their business (spreadbetting) is as bookmaker, so they don't have to do it.

 

 

[Guest Dan]

I am wondering if Mini DAX in futures market has only one point spread? anyone knows?

 

Cheers, 

[dan-is-dead]

I would humbly suggest ig were caught out by the bear market.....and have no choice but to increase spreads to get some dosh back....i guess its their business and if we dont like it...foot with your feet.....thats try some other broker!  I am looking....

[Molibar]

4 hours ago, dan-is-dead said:

I would humbly suggest ig were caught out by the bear market.....and have no choice but to increase spreads to get some dosh back....i guess its their business and if we dont like it...foot with your feet.....thats try some other broker!  I am looking....

CoreSpreads trading interface is horrible, but I've opened up an account and have been demo trading today. It took me less than an hour to get into their order flow, which is really simple, which for me means absolute garbage. With IG's offer on ProRealTime you get a really good trading platform with a lot of power. I've been using Sierra Charts for futures trading, and that blows everything else straight out of the water. The types of orders you can put on is mind blowing.

I totally disagree with what you and BigDeal is saying about understanding IG when it comes to their insane spreads. Their marketing material is lying, you don't get even close to the spreads they boast about. They have been willingly taking the majority of their clients money since they started, and now when volatility comes in they decide they want a bigger piece of the pie. Unacceptable.. Their increased risk, if they were actually hedging their clients trades, would be zero, and with the increased trading they should even be able to tighten the spreads.

Tomorrow I will continue demo trading, and on Monday I will probably vote my way out of IG with my feet.. ..if I can get over CoreSpread's impotent trading interface:)..

Regards,
Molibar

[Caseynotes]

Spreads are handed down from the liquidity provider to IG who hand over to you (with their slice on top). Trading Dax for years daily I don't remember the spread ever being more than 1 point during normal trading hours up until the virus crisis of the last 2 weeks, so the current increased spreads is extraordinary.

IG use a variable spread model which means they pass any increase from the liquidity provider on to you. Normally increased spreads from the liquidity provider last just minutes or an hour or 2 but this crisis with it's highly volatility has been going on for 2 weeks. A broker that has fixed spreads is swallowing that loss but for how long can they keep doing that and still remain solvent? 

Good luck with the demo platform, unfortunately demo doesn't replicate live very well during volatile markets for example they don't replicate slippage and requotes.

[BigDeal]

@Molibar    I am not defending IG spreads, rather acknowledging how they decide to price.  IG have many many positive characteristics over other providers and it depends what you want and your trading style as to who you use. I have been an IG client since 2003 and would not use anyone else for some aspects of my trading, but for other elements they are not the best.  When day trading indices I need tight spreads; the difference can be £10's a day in my P&L. 

 

[Molibar]

3 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

Spreads are handed down from the liquidity provider to IG who hand over to you (with their slice on top). Trading Dax for years daily I don't remember the spread ever being more than 1 point during normal trading hours up until the virus crisis of the last 2 weeks, so the current increased spreads is extraordinary.

IG use a variable spread model which means they pass any increase from the liquidity provider on to you. Normally increased spreads from the liquidity provider last just minutes or an hour or 2 but this crisis with it's highly volatility has been going on for 2 weeks. A broker that has fixed spreads is swallowing that loss but for how long can they keep doing that and still remain solvent? 

Good luck with the demo platform, unfortunately demo doesn't replicate live very well during volatile markets for example they don't replicate slippage and requotes.

Slippage is given on CoreSpread's demo platform, and they are following FCA's rules, so the money is protected just as on the IG platform. Haven't got trades rejected though, so I don't know how requoting will affect me. I guess it's not more common there than on IG's platform though. Given how rare it is when live trading I don't think it will affect my demo trading much.

Thanks for the explanation of how IG sets their spreads, makes me less upset with them.

Regards,
Molibar

[dmedin]

18 hours ago, BigDeal said:

I don't think anybody serious about trading should only deal with one firm

True.  I've signed up to try a few others but learning a different platform is a chore, I'm so lazy.

[Caseynotes]

2 minutes ago, Molibar said:

Slippage is given on CoreSpread's demo platform, and they are following FCA's rules, so the money is protected just as on the IG platform. Haven't got trades rejected though, so I don't know how requoting will affect me. I guess it's not more common there than on IG's platform though. Given how rare it is when live trading I don't think it will affect my demo trading much.

Thanks for the explanation of how IG sets their spreads, makes me less upset with them.

Regards,
Molibar

you're welcome, different business models, different choices. I've seen many brokers go to the wall during tough times because they were intent on being the cheapest. Protected money fine but it can still take years for the liquidator to sort out.

[AndrewS]

I will probably check out the E-minis.

https://portal.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx

https://www.ampglobal.com/trading/metatrader5.html

 

[Caseynotes]

12 hours ago, AndrewS said:

I will probably check out the E-minis.

https://portal.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx

https://www.ampglobal.com/trading/metatrader5.html

 

Great, whenever I see a broker registered in Cyprus I'm reminded of the time 3 or 4 years ago when hundreds of Chinese traders chartered a plane to fly to Cyprus to protest outside the regulators headquarters. CySEC had no proper broker vetting and no way of helping clients retrieve lost funds when one of their larger registered brokers went bust (IronFX I think it was).

Good luck.

[AndrewS]

Funny you should mention that because there was another from Cyprus I was trying to find and then I realized it had disappeared. I am just going to use the demo when it is too tough to trade and probably look into another one.

[Caseynotes]

6 minutes ago, AndrewS said:

Funny you should mention that because there was another from Cyprus I was trying to find and then I realized it had disappeared. I am just going to use the demo when it is too tough to trade and probably look into another one.

you pay your money and take your chances, esma and the fca require brokers to jump though some pretty high hoops to be registered and that costs. Some traders don't mind paying a bit more for the extra security, some do mind.

[dmedin]

On 02/04/2020 at 21:48, dan-is-dead said:

I would humbly suggest ig were caught out by the bear market.....and have no choice but to increase spreads to get some dosh back....i guess its their business and if we dont like it...foot with your feet.....thats try some other broker!  I am looking....

Interesting ... you think they make money from their own trading?  That would almost certainly give them a temptation to trade against their clients at times.

[dmedin]

16 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

you pay your money and take your chances

 

Welcome to the BIG F-KING CASINO!

[dmedin]

8 minutes ago, dmedin said:

That would almost certainly give them a temptation to trade against their clients at times.

Apropos of which, don't forget that they know where your stops are

[Caseynotes]

1 minute ago, dmedin said:

Apropos of which, don't forget that they know where your stops are

everyone knows where your stops are, they're in the same place as everyone else.

[Molibar]

17 hours ago, AndrewS said:

I will probably check out the E-minis.

https://portal.ampclearing.com/account/commissionquote.aspx

https://www.ampglobal.com/trading/metatrader5.html

 

I would suggest you sign up for an US AMP account instead of a Europe one instead. If you want to use a separate trading platform, for instance like Sierra Chart, you can then get the CME data for free, or discounted via your broker. As a European trader it costs a lot if you don't get it through your broker. With this setup you get access to crude and gold futures data too.

Regards,
Molibar

[Caseynotes]

10 minutes ago, Molibar said:

I would suggest you sign up for an US AMP account instead of a Europe one instead. If you want to use a separate trading platform, for instance like Sierra Chart, you can then get the CME data for free, or discounted via your broker. As a European trader it costs a lot if you don't get it through your broker. With this setup you get access to crude and gold futures data too.

Regards,
Molibar

the US regulator (SEC) has placed a very hefty minimum account size for retail clients trading in the US, I can't remember exactly but $24,000 comes to mind.