Covid and the Economy

[Caseynotes]

cases are up in the thousands because testing is up in the thousands, you will test positive if you have had contact with any corona virus including the common cold even many months ago and were most likely to be asymptomatic (you wouldn't know).

Deaths are still in decline and the numbers are minimal. The death rate has been cited in a number of research papers linked in above posts as to be around 0.1%, same as common flu and if you are under 45 the rate drops to around 0.03%. The UK recently stripped many thousands off the total deaths number because of obvious miscounting.

This rate is as the epidemiologists predicted back in March (also posted above) but the Govt decided to listen to the modelers instead who proved to be wildly inaccurate.

Even before starting this thread I was posting the numbers coming out of Asian countries and what the UK govt were saying did not add up. They have used this to strip civil liberties and power grab and they are now reluctant to let it go. 

They will continue with the fear campaign and we will be treated to the panic of 30,000 flu deaths next winter, easy enough to predict the number because it's the 5 year rolling average for excess winter deaths (ie before covid 19 ever appeared). 

 

 

 

 

[786Trader]

Have been following this thread with interest. Are you suggesting that a test will prove positive even if one has only had a cold 3 months ago (for example)? 

         I presumed being in government meant by extension one was "in" power, certainly in control of the executive, which has not changed greatly since the advent of this virus back in January. I am still missing motive. Perhaps I have failed to notice the wood for the trees? Are you suggesting this virus is the same as any normal influenza virus, just slightly more deadly? This virus has thrived in any weathers (unlike influenza) and has best been tempered through social distancing measures. Or should we ignore all social distancing and let this virus spread unchecked? As it may be considered a fraud perpetrated by big pharma/dark, anonymous  govt forces? Or is it really a nasty novel virulent virus that affects mostly the old, infirm, obese and weak? Your figures suggest no/negligible excess deaths this year for the UK, which is unusual and one must examine more closely the relevant data set concerned. For example you figures are for 2019/2020 and not for 2020 which surely would be a more accurate comparison.(First 9 months of 2020 to first 9 months 2019, 2018, 2017 for example). 

     Enjoy the remains of your weekend🙂

[andysinclair]

1 hour ago, 786Trader said:

Your figures suggest no/negligible excess deaths this year for the UK,

This doesn't correspond to what is published on the ONS website. Excess deaths this year are much higher than the past 5 years average (top two lines):

From https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending28august2020

[Caseynotes]

yes there is no test for covid 19, only for corona virus. Most influenzas including the common cold are corona viruses, there are links posted above.

But it's not 'thrived in all weathers', testing has thrived and picking up old fragmented virus signs (link has been posted above).

there is also the problem of govt rates and numbers, for example the German govt only listed people who died of covid while the UK listed anyone suspected of having covid at time of death, the Ger death figures are a third of the UK's.

Yes it is a new strain of corona virus so is more deadly than a repeated seasonal dominant strain but they mutate very quickly, waiting for a vaccine is a waste of time.

The ill are quarantined (social distancing and lockdown), quarantining the healthy is just stupid as the immunologists pointed out back in March (see above).

It is not novel, flu viruses have killed off the old and sickly every year since the dawn of time hence the rolling yearly average of 30,000. Excess winter deaths are mostly flu and pneumonia (the 2 key symptoms of covid 19), mid 20th century the average was more like 50,000 a year.

I have linked to many govt scientific papers as well as ONS and NHS data throughout this thread which should help your search.

 

 

[dmedin]

10 hours ago, 786Trader said:

Looks more like a natural phenomenon, a particularly virulent virus that preys on the weak,obese and vulnerable, plus it seems to hit the bame community harder than most others. It is novel and not in a good way. 

We need a socially Darwinian 'new world order' where the weak, the fat and the old are allowed to be killed off.

Let us replace them en masse with healthy Africans.

[Caseynotes]

Johnson is just making up law stood at the podium now, there is no debate, no vote, no parliament and no opposition. The great dictator's latest decree is the 'rule of six' so you can cancel Christmas now.

The good news is you are being encouraged to join the Stasi Volunteers and snitch on your neigbours to earn the gratitude of the state. And of course if you are being burgled and the number of burglers takes the number of people in your house past 6 report this to the police for a greater chance they will actually respond.

And fear not, this is all just til we've flattened the curve. 

Edited September 15, 2020 by Caseynotes

[dmedin]

Are you happy with what your Tory government is doing?  You voted for them.

I see exemptions are being made where they need to be, for groups of toffs going out hunting foxes.

England never changes  

[dmedin]

Quote

The shutdown comes on the recommendation of Israel’s Health Ministry and Netanyahu’s coronavirus czar, Ronni Gamzu. Shortly after Gamzu took up the post in July, he told local television networks that the “socioeconomic trauma” inflicted by COVID restrictions was greater than its health impact. With Israel still in recession and the unemployment rate above 25% Gamzu said he had no plans to reimpose lockdown measures.

https://time.com/5889096/israel-second-lockdown-covid-19/

Edited September 16, 2020 by dmedin

[Caseynotes]

"Bolton, the coronavirus hotspot of England, has only two coronavirus patients on hospital wards, the most up-to-date NHS data shows.”

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

[Caseynotes]

First Squawk

@FirstSquawk

UK ANNOUNCES RESTRICTIONS FOR MORE AREAS IN NORTH WEST, WEST YORKSHIRE AND MIDLANDS TO TACKLE RISING INFECTION RATES

you are being played.

[Caseynotes]

Hospitalisations negligible, Deaths negligible  --> restart lockdown (just in case).

(you didn't think this was ever actually going to end did you?)

[jlz]

I  follow this page and I saw how Spain became from a nice yellowish spot to a complete red warning place. Mainly because of the great number of tourists that went there in summer.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Now France is becoming the same way. I don't know how countries are going to stop it if they don't lock everything down. Until there is a vaccine we are all at risk unfortunately.

Edited September 18, 2020 by jlz

[Caseynotes]

32 minutes ago, jlz said:

I  follow this page and I saw how Spain became from a nice yellowish spot to a complete red warning place. Mainly because of the great number of tourists that went there in summer.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Now France is becoming the same way. I don't know how countries are going to stop it if they don't lock everything down. Until there is a vaccine we are all at risk unfortunately.

Corona virus has been with us since forever we just never mass tested before. There are no extra deaths this year than any other and it's the same unfortunate types who die of corona virus every year (over 80's with pre-existing conditions 90% of cases).

Corona virus is always circulating in the population most people being completely unaware and asymptomatic, herd immunity is built and the virus mutates or dies out.

Tests just show you have been exposed to the virus at some stage which could have been months ago and you were most likely asymptomatic.

Vaccines don't work for corona virus because they mutate very quickly which is why there is no vaccine for the common cold (a corona virus). And why flu shots don't work very often because they are based on the previous years dominant strain not the current year's (the mass manufacturing would be too late).

Covid 19 has already been mutating and the last studies I saw several weeks ago confirmed that as usual a particularly nasty strain becomes less deadly with each new mutation.

Another 30,000 people will die next year from respiratory infections as it's the 5 year rolling average (covid 19 or not), weather it'll be covid 19 next year or another strain no one knows but they will keep the covid ball rolling anyway.

So all in all it looks like lockdown til the end of time.

 

 

 

[THT]

4 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Corona virus has been with us since forever we just never mass tested before. There are no extra deaths this year than any other and it's the same unfortunate types who die of corona virus every year (over 80's with pre-existing conditions 90% of cases).

Corona virus is always circulating in the population most people being completely unaware and asymptomatic, herd immunity is built and the virus mutates or dies out.

Tests just show you have been exposed to the virus at some stage which could have been months ago and you were most likely asymptomatic.

Vaccines don't work for corona virus because they mutate very quickly which is why there is no vaccine for the common cold (a corona virus). And why flu shots don't work very often because they are based on the previous years dominant strain not the current year's (the mass manufacturing would be too late).

Covid 19 has already been mutating and the last studies I saw several weeks ago confirmed that as usual a particularly nasty strain becomes less deadly with each new mutation.

Another 30,000 people will die next year from respiratory infections as it's the 5 year rolling average (covid 19 or not), weather it'll be covid 19 next year or another strain no one knows but they will keep the covid ball rolling anyway.

So all in all it looks like lockdown til the end of time.

 

 

 

I agree with 99% of this - the current strain is virtually exact to a strain found in 2012 by a group of Chinese scientists, then when 6 of them died from exposure the virus was sealed and sent to Wuhan

I challenged David Icke  to prove the excess deaths were'nt excess deaths, from the info I looked into I'm satisfied the virus is genuine and I'm probably one of the worlds biggest sceptics 

From a lock down point of view I'd of thought the perfect place to test out compliance of mass herds would be the USA - hasn't happened strongly enough for me to be concerned but it shown those that could create such circumstances how compliment most people are.

 

[jlz]

I want to believe that, even if we had viruses for many years and we lived with them like nothing happened, this one is killing more people than it should. At least is what reports are saying. That is why countries are forcing lock-downs. Think about that a lock-down is going to extend the furlough policies all over the world again. I don't think a government want to pay that money out to citizens if they don't have to, and companies are going to have to close business for good if we have a second lock-down everywhere.

I agree with the statement that we had many corona-viruses before i.e. common flu, but why now governments are taking these draconian measures to force people into a quarantine? If we had the same dangerous viruses always around why are they now locking people at their homes. Did they not care about people before?

I think the virus is way more deadly than they tell us and that is why people are not really that scared of it. If we had all the information that is available to professionals we would be really scared and people would lock themselves without waiting any government to tell them.

My wife is Chinese and I get their news first hand. They are not reporting what is really happening since the very beginning and it is really hard to trust the Chinese government  on anything related to this virus. They still have the problem there, they keep locking entire cities down for short periods the minute they see anything. It is not reported here in the news but every week they lock people down at their homes. 

This virus is really nasty and if locking people down is going to stop it, let's do it. 

[Caseynotes]

13 hours ago, jlz said:

This virus is really nasty and if locking people down is going to stop it, let's do it. 

Studies actually show the opposite, lockdown doesn't stop anything and rather encourages the spread in smaller groups, remember the whole point of the lockdown was to save the NHS from being overwhelmed which, as it turned out, was never a risk anyway. 

As I pointed out in an earlier post you can't hide from a virus, it just waits til you come out of hiding, only herd immunity will see an end to it, something Sweden has already achieved (and the UK hasn't) by not locking down, and they ended with a lower overall death rate as well.

 

[Caseynotes]

'Don't worry, it's just til we flatten the curve'.

you are being played.

 

JOIN THE STASI VOLUNTEERS!!! ---- Shop a neighbour and win credits!!!

you are being played.

 

AID YOUR COMMUNITY, BECOME A COVID MARSHALL!!!

you are being played.

 

WEAR A MASK!!!

you are being played.

 

SECOND WAVE!!!

Covid hotspot Bolton has 2 patients in hospital with covid therefore ---> + 1 = BBC/SKY News 'Breaking news' shock 'COVID HOSPITAL ADMISSIONS UP 50%.'

you are being played.

 

ANYTHING TO AVOID A SECOND WAVE!!!

There will be around 30,000 deaths next year no matter what you do. We know this because the 5 year rolling average of excess deaths from respiratory infections is 30,000 a year, these types of viruses have killed off the old and weak every year for hundreds of thousands of years. As we've seen, lockdown can't prevent it and nor can a vaccine, these organisms mutate too fast.

you are being played.

 

Meanwhile, back in reality;

 

 

[THT]

All this is is a new different strain of a Coronavirus as Caseynotes says (a coronavirus is just a common cold type virus) - it's killing people who can't cope with it, most of the population will be able to cope with it, but if say 5% don't then that's 3 million dead

The government don'[t want the bad press of letting 3 million people die, they also can't cope with the effect that would have on the hospital infrastructure in the UK - hence the lock down

It's worked, but we can't hide, it will get us all infection wise at some stage now or in the future just like the Flu - then its a lottery whether you survive or die from it - the only way to get rid of this is to have a 100% shut down of everything globally (which is virtually impossible) to stop the spread and let the virus wipe itself out by not being able to reproduce

The governments not helped the situation from its action as people will expect protection going forward - at some point the economy and money will decide what the government does

[jlz]

ok, let's say that we all agree on the fact that we had many corona-viruses before and this one is just another one to add to the list. We can't escape it and sooner or later will catch me, I can agree with all of that, a mask is not an astronaut helmet so I can't protect myself from it.

What is the actual point of forcing people into a quarantine? We say that governments do not want bad press or be entitled to many deaths, which are actually the same deaths every year.  Are they not able to explain that instead of simply telling us to stay at home?

If I am being played, what is the actual end point? Why would governments all over the world play people on the subject? I find really hard to believe that this is all part of a massive hoax. 

I don't see the benefit of forcing quarantines just for the sake of making people to follow rules. Is it not easier to think that the information we've got is so minimal that we can't be sure that this virus is going to wipe out people suddenly from the face of earth? Like, "we have no clue of what is going on, you better stay at home, because is the only advise I can give you"

How about to listen to professionals that warn us daily? Like Dr Fauci

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/14/fauci-covid-19-risks-coronavirus-trump-white-house

Is not better to do what they say instead of believing that this is all part of a massive conspiracy against people?

I don't think governments are playing people around, it is more that they don't have a clue of what we have to do to fix it, pretty much like in other pandemic. And the only message they can give us is "stay at home and let's hope that you  don't die"

[Caseynotes]

The empirical evidence coming out of Asian countries in February matched the epidemiologists predictions (deaths around 0.1%, similar to common flu, Japan and South Korea - no lockdown).

The govt decided to completely ignore this real evidence and instead go with Ferguson and his magical mystery models that predicted deaths in the millions which of course proved to be totally inaccurate. By the way Ferguson did exactly the same thing over Bird Flu years before, got it completely wrong.

The epidemiologists also claimed that lockdown would not beat the virus, they were proved correct in this too.

Just seen this, must be very recent;

 

BBC Newsnight  @BBCNewsnight

“It is quite inexplicable why herd immunity has become a toxic phrase.” Theoretical Epidemiologist Prof @SunetraGupta says there “needs to be a fundamental change in how we approach dealing with” the coronavirus crisis

 

  

[Caseynotes]

2 minutes ago, jlz said:

How about to listen to professionals that warn us daily? Like Dr Fauci

Sorry but as I've pointed out many times throughout this thread Fauci is a Gates stooge and has been proved wrong nearly as often as the WHO.

[jlz]

1 minute ago, Caseynotes said:

Sorry but as I've pointed out many times throughout this thread Fauci is a Gates stooge and has been proved wrong nearly as often as the WHO.

Yeah, that is why he is an immunologist only considered as an eminence in the science community. 

Of course a post full of memes is going to disprove him. 

[Caseynotes]

Just now, jlz said:

Yeah, that is why he is an immunologist only considered as an eminence in the science community. 

Of course a post full of memes is going to disprove him. 

I must have referred to Fauci at least a dozen times in this thread and posted links detailing his financial links to the Gates foundation as well as the content stream of Fauci U-turns over the last 6 months.

[jlz]

5 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

I must have referred to Fauci at least a dozen times in this thread and posted links detailing his financial links to the Gates foundation as well as the content stream of Fauci U-turns over the last 6 months.

You are  not going to tell me now that it is all about Bill Gates and his plans to implant chips on people over 5g, are you? Do you believe that?

Edited September 19, 2020 by jlz

[Caseynotes]

1 minute ago, jlz said:

You are  not going to tell me now that it is all about Bill Gates and his plans to implants chips on people over 5g, are you? Do you believe that?

err, Gates does have plans to chip people with a health passport and their personal banking information so can be easily scanned and read by officials, he said so himself. It's in one of the videos linked in this thread.

[jlz]

10 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

err, Gates does have plans to chip people with a health passport and their personal banking information so can be easily scanned and read by officials, he said so himself. It's in one of the videos linked in this thread.

You must be a big fan of all the memes quoted in this article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/52847648

I thought we were discussing something interesting here but I  find really hard to argue with that extremist side that you are taking.

"You are being played" + "you are going to be microchipped" is too much for me. I step out now.

[Caseynotes]

7 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

err, Gates does have plans to chip people with a health passport and their personal banking information so can be easily scanned and read by officials, he said so himself. It's in one of the videos linked in this thread.

there can only be a few reasons why this farce is given legs, personally I think the most likely reason is that politicians don't want to admit they made a monumental and disastrous mistake that we will be paying for for decades to come, they were all in agreement, both sides of the divide, they are all to blame.

They are currently waiting and hoping someone will come up vaccine so they can say 'fixed it' but we're still waiting for a vaccine for the common cold.

Doesn't matter anyway as herd immunity will fix it, they just need to be able to say some shot in the arm did it.

[Caseynotes]

Hahahaha BBC fact check, you must be joking.

All through the 1990s I listened to the Today programme, around 2000 I noticed things were not right, by 2010 it was clear to me the BBC had an agenda and were not impartial at all. That's when I stopped listening to the BBC for news all together.

Now I follow 20 - 30 news organisations from around the world. What the BBC were not reporting was often more important than what the were reporting, that is tantamount to lying for a so called 'news' organisation.

 

'Is that true or did you hear it on the BBC' is a thing.

[Caseynotes]

snap. this is why politicians must keep the pretense rolling

Bianca Nobilo  @bianca_nobilo

10h

New Zealand plunges into worst recession in decades (as a result of the widely praised covid response) one month before kiwis go to the polls — in a vote seen as referendum on Jacinda Ardern’s leadership

BBC News (World)  @BBCWorld

Covid-19 pushes New Zealand into worst recession in years bbc.in/35LqVcA

[Caseynotes]

Mirror Politics  @MirrorPolitics

Pubs and restaurants to shut in days as PM warned "no alternative" to second lockdown