nit2wynit

@TrendFollower I think what's obviously happened in the past is I've noticed a Point Spread, but it's changed without me knowing. This could be a reason why i was failing a lot early on. Still learning the basics.

Well, to be fair, it's knowledge now. Hopefully the Spread will be added to the Demo soon too. Not hard to get confused when we're dealing with 4 number dealing prices that have gone from 5pt to 25pt Spread. no wonder my trades went from -£20 to -£100 :O Seems I've spent a lot of time learning chart movements and not enough about Spread Betting Fundamentals. Like I've said, it was Share Dealing I'd been Studying. Think I'll take this whole thing back to Pen and Paper and give this thread a rest.

@Caseynotes lol. I know. I can feel the anguish in the Forum. Something isn't clicking here inside me. I had no idea the Spread was the WHOLE spread from Buy to Sell Price. I thought it was Half the Spread. you'll remember me saying that the spread isn't showing on the Demo. It's clearly thrown me off. Next i look at the ASK buy and Mid price and try figure that out. ****. thanks everyone.

@TrendFollower Explain this to me please. Image shows 5ppp, Stop and Limit at 1pt or £5. Why has it cost me £15 to place the trade? The price between the Buy and sell is 3pts? The charts is showing the Mid price. Thanks

Yes, that's it @TrendFollower But I know what the Spread is!!! I know what Margin is and Leverage!! You keep talking about Overnight, but I'm a Day Trader. No open Trades. I'll be trading for a few hours a Day, tops. I'm also aware of overnight charges. But you've picked a Share Price at the wrong end. £1 share price, 1000 shares. Move from £1 to £2. Profit £1000. cost £8. Spread Betting cost to make the same money from £1 to £2.

I've just read that the LSE is in Pence at all times. Thanks lol

How do i know if stock is in Pounds or Pence?

My problem is i can't find a stock that is only £1 to do an example with. Otherwise I'd just put the numbers in to Share dealing to see how many shares, Obviously 1000, or what it would cost to make £1000 moving from £1 to £2 on Spread Betting.

@TrendFollower forgive me, The £1000 IS THE SAME! You've been very active here with advice that i appreciate, but it's all the same. We know it's different. We know the Risk. That's what i'm trying to outline. Let's assume 'We know it's going up'. £1000. £1 per share price = 1000 shares. Spread Betting Vs Share Dealing To Buy the Shares cost £8 To Spread Bet Costs? Answers???

Oh Dear @JamesIG I know what Trading is. I know what charts are. I understand Spread, Tax free, Capital etc. Trailing Stops Market opening times; I understand most of it. But there is something missing in the Jigsaw, that may be staring me in the Face. I learned about Share dealing, Not Spread Betting as it is not available in all parts of the world. I can see the benefits of Spread betting. They are clearly outlined. I am working on being a Day Trader. I'm simply trying to work out, that if I only had £1000, what would make the most money, in the shortest time? For instance,I did a trade last week for £170 per point. It put me under 2pts at -£340 to start, but moved up 4pts to take £340 profit. Using a 2k margin. But I want my Spread Cost to match the Commision Price. But only is i can make the same profit on the same Instrument over the same point moves. Theoretically, I have One go. Spread Betting, vs Share dealing. Which makes more sense, more money, all other things equal if I only have 1k? I have £1000. I see a Stock that is £1. I can buy 1000. It goes up to £2, or 100% I sell and make £1000. I see the same Stock using SB. I still only have £1000 account. The cost is £1 Plus the Spread of??. I want to make £1000 going from £1 to £2. Same scenario, just different methods. How much will the Spread cost? Is there a Price Range of Stocks that I need to concentrate on where the Spread cost would equal the Commission Price? Buy the shares cost £8. Place a Bet £8 under. You all see where I'm going with this yet? lol.

If this STILL isn't clear............. 1k account. Commision to Buy shares £8 Spread Cost must also be £8 How do I calculate what the spread will actually cost me? It must cost the same for me to Place a Bet as it would to Buy the Shares. If I haven;t been clear since i joined back in March................. I learned about Share Dealing!!!!!!!!!!!! not Spread Betting. I'm still trying to work out if Spread Betting is actually a Benefit over Share Dealing. Thanks.

I think I'm not being clear and you're all missing the point. Over ANY Trade with only 1K to use to either BUY shares, or Spread Bet, which Platform can make the most money over the same point moves, with the least risk? lol. This is the Cost of the Commision vs the Spread. So if the Commision is £10, then the Spread must also be £10. If it moves in the Wrong Direction, which Platform will reduce my Losses? The account size is 1k, regardless. The Same Stock. Not different stocks. Side by Side. Buying and Selling vs Spread betting. Is there a Formula that suits Spread Betting, that does not suit Share Dealing and Vice Versa?

Right, Greatland Gold is £0.0147pence right now. So about 1.5p per share. 1 point is 1pence? If i buy £1000 worth of Greatland Gold shares the cost is =£1000. This equates to 66,045 shares. If it goes up 1point to say 2.5p per share, I get 66,045x£0.01p=£66.045 Spread Betting the same Stock. To gain £66 from £0.01p move, the Stake must be £66 per point. Margin of £25. This puts me under £1.82 But to be honest, I'm really REALLY struggling with this pence and Pound equation lol.

Thanks, but how do i know if i'm dealing in Pounds or Pence? For instance Greatland Gold UK Small Caps. it's GBX. it's showing 1.47. Is this £0.147 pence, or £1.47p? I'm assuming it's £0.14p?

On another note previously mentioned, why is the Minimum Stop on this over 7pts? It's only gone up about 4.3% or 15pts on the day in 6hrs?

@JamesIG Of course, we know that IG makes money from the Spread. It's better to make more on the spread than only the Commision, right? Comparing an outlay of over 4k to that of a Margin of £800 isn't the same really is it. That price is specific to that stock at those amounts. What about having only a 2k account? The equation must work backwards now. What about a £1 share price? Can you do the same equation to make the same profit, including the Spread? @TrendFollower as above, yes, this is what I've come to understand. Large point moves vs Price per point etc. Trying to find the Balance between the two is proving tricky. However, I've put this question down many times now, and no-one thus far has been able to give a definitive answer to Stock Price Vs Margin, vs Account Size, vs Profit in relation to Share Dealing Directly. Maybe it's so obvious I'm missing it? £1 share price x 1000 shares = £1000 + 1point move @ £1pp = £1000 profit. What is the equivalent in Spread betting? Thanks

@TrendFollower @JamesIG Thanks for the input here. James I appreciate the info above, but what would you start under by using SB vs Share Dealing? There's obviously a sweet Spot Re; Price of a Stock vs Price per point vs Commision Price. Is there a way to determine which stock's provide similar returns using sharedealing? My own example is of a £1 stock. By your example against mine it appears that the smaller the stock price, the more Initial Price per point must increase? Therefore a higher priced stock may be more akin to Buying and Selling shares. For me to make this work, i need the Price per point to Equal the Commission cost of Buying the shares, plus make the same or more per point move. Thanks

@dmedinI know where you're coming from, and I agree. But you can make a living from it. My main problem (regardless of my lack of knowledge about the Spreads growing exponentially) Is the Risk vs Reward as I've mentioned. There are 2 scenario's that I need to work out in detail. These being the Capital needed, vs the Stake placed to make the same profit or more either using SB OR Buying Selling Shares (which we can do here also by the way!) For Instance, to Buy shares here with IG cost anything from £5 to £15 I think depending on the Market. Let's assume we know a share is going up for the purpose of this exercise. With 1k, If I want to Buy shares i'll need to literally put up 1k, but the cost to buy the shares in UK is only about £5. So although I have used my entire Capital of 1k + £5 to buy them, at this point I am down £1005. If i was to Sell Immediately at the same price, i would get the full 1k back so only be down £5. If I use Spreadbetting, Although i wouldn't need to put down the 1k, i would need to use the 1k Margin. However, depending on what stock I'm Trading, the Spread could be anything from 1-200????? So as shown last week in my screen shot, the stock I had at the time put me under 2pts, but at £170 pp i started £340 under. If i got out right away i would be down £340. This scenario alone tells me to Stay Away, but I'm still trying to work out the Price per point ratio, vs Margin vs Profit etc. But I think it goes like this. 1k will buy me 1000 shares @ £1 +£5 to Buy the shares. If they go up to £2 I make 1k? Seems right? If i want to SB the same stock, i'll need that stock to move more than 1pt or 100% because of the Spread of 1pt. (assuming in this case 1pt =£1) Regardless, to make 1k on SB i'll need to stake £1000 ppp and need it to move more than 100%. (1 for the Spread 1 for the profit) I'm guessing here but I'll be under by £500 just to place the trade. But......If my bought shares Dip 50p, I'll be down £500 if I sell. If they Dip on SB I'll be down 1k. Can anyone confirm this about about right?

Ah, Cheers Casey. Handy but quite essential thing to have one thinks. Market close is also inside the ticket info. I've been left with an open trade again. Luckily I have a stop in place. I've no Idea what market it's on but closed at 3.55pm!!

@JamesIG Of late, on the Demo there has been No Spread Info like that above, at the point of placing the trade. Maybe something is up on the platform or the Demo? The only way for me to see the size of the spread if by counting the difference between the Buy and Sell price. I'm referring to the 'Minimum Stop' that is applied that I cannot change. It's either Zero or something huge. I should have made a note of it last week. It meant I couldn't walk away from the trade. I limited my stop to 20pts, but on this occasion the minimum was about 150pts! so I need to wait to see if it went the wrong way to Stop it manually. There's little point in me referencing it now without the evidence so forget about that for now. Thanks. But the Spread info is definitely missing from my trades over the last week. I'll see if I have any evidence of screen shots to prove it, in the meantime this is from right now.

While you're here @JamesIG can you tell me why some of the Auto Stop Loses are so massive?

@JamesIG I'll simply need to make sure the Spread hasn't changed between each trade on the same Instrument. Today could have been very costly if I were Live and Not Demo'ing. Thanks.

Yeah fair enough. It's in the Small Print, maybe it's not even that small, but to go on the fly from 5 to 25.......Dangerous. I'll need to go back to March to see if I had changing Spread then too. Been using this platform since then and had No Idea the Spread could change so dramatically. Each day I see more and more reason to stay Clear of SB and simply go to Share dealing directly. However, all that said, I've learned a very important lesson today.

Right folks, probably close to my Posting Limit for today. Her'es an update I wasn't aware of. The Spread can change by the Tick at anytime without notice. Trading the Instrument above. I'm pretty certain I started with a 5pt spread. then it went to £15, then to £25. I didn't even notice till it went to £25 and got stopped out twice.......... What a **** joke and a con this platform is. How can you justify going from £5 to £25 without notice?? Jeeeeez. Still learning.

Well...................Somehow on this stock the Spread changed from 15pt to 25!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone shed any light on this??? Down £120 on my profits today.