nit2wynit

@JamesIG Of course, we know that IG makes money from the Spread. It's better to make more on the spread than only the Commision, right? Comparing an outlay of over 4k to that of a Margin of £800 isn't the same really is it. That price is specific to that stock at those amounts. What about having only a 2k account? The equation must work backwards now. What about a £1 share price? Can you do the same equation to make the same profit, including the Spread? @TrendFollower as above, yes, this is what I've come to understand. Large point moves vs Price per point etc. Trying to find the Balance between the two is proving tricky. However, I've put this question down many times now, and no-one thus far has been able to give a definitive answer to Stock Price Vs Margin, vs Account Size, vs Profit in relation to Share Dealing Directly. Maybe it's so obvious I'm missing it? £1 share price x 1000 shares = £1000 + 1point move @ £1pp = £1000 profit. What is the equivalent in Spread betting? Thanks

@TrendFollower @JamesIG Thanks for the input here. James I appreciate the info above, but what would you start under by using SB vs Share Dealing? There's obviously a sweet Spot Re; Price of a Stock vs Price per point vs Commision Price. Is there a way to determine which stock's provide similar returns using sharedealing? My own example is of a £1 stock. By your example against mine it appears that the smaller the stock price, the more Initial Price per point must increase? Therefore a higher priced stock may be more akin to Buying and Selling shares. For me to make this work, i need the Price per point to Equal the Commission cost of Buying the shares, plus make the same or more per point move. Thanks

@dmedinI know where you're coming from, and I agree. But you can make a living from it. My main problem (regardless of my lack of knowledge about the Spreads growing exponentially) Is the Risk vs Reward as I've mentioned. There are 2 scenario's that I need to work out in detail. These being the Capital needed, vs the Stake placed to make the same profit or more either using SB OR Buying Selling Shares (which we can do here also by the way!) For Instance, to Buy shares here with IG cost anything from £5 to £15 I think depending on the Market. Let's assume we know a share is going up for the purpose of this exercise. With 1k, If I want to Buy shares i'll need to literally put up 1k, but the cost to buy the shares in UK is only about £5. So although I have used my entire Capital of 1k + £5 to buy them, at this point I am down £1005. If i was to Sell Immediately at the same price, i would get the full 1k back so only be down £5. If I use Spreadbetting, Although i wouldn't need to put down the 1k, i would need to use the 1k Margin. However, depending on what stock I'm Trading, the Spread could be anything from 1-200????? So as shown last week in my screen shot, the stock I had at the time put me under 2pts, but at £170 pp i started £340 under. If i got out right away i would be down £340. This scenario alone tells me to Stay Away, but I'm still trying to work out the Price per point ratio, vs Margin vs Profit etc. But I think it goes like this. 1k will buy me 1000 shares @ £1 +£5 to Buy the shares. If they go up to £2 I make 1k? Seems right? If i want to SB the same stock, i'll need that stock to move more than 1pt or 100% because of the Spread of 1pt. (assuming in this case 1pt =£1) Regardless, to make 1k on SB i'll need to stake £1000 ppp and need it to move more than 100%. (1 for the Spread 1 for the profit) I'm guessing here but I'll be under by £500 just to place the trade. But......If my bought shares Dip 50p, I'll be down £500 if I sell. If they Dip on SB I'll be down 1k. Can anyone confirm this about about right?

Ah, Cheers Casey. Handy but quite essential thing to have one thinks. Market close is also inside the ticket info. I've been left with an open trade again. Luckily I have a stop in place. I've no Idea what market it's on but closed at 3.55pm!!

@JamesIG Of late, on the Demo there has been No Spread Info like that above, at the point of placing the trade. Maybe something is up on the platform or the Demo? The only way for me to see the size of the spread if by counting the difference between the Buy and Sell price. I'm referring to the 'Minimum Stop' that is applied that I cannot change. It's either Zero or something huge. I should have made a note of it last week. It meant I couldn't walk away from the trade. I limited my stop to 20pts, but on this occasion the minimum was about 150pts! so I need to wait to see if it went the wrong way to Stop it manually. There's little point in me referencing it now without the evidence so forget about that for now. Thanks. But the Spread info is definitely missing from my trades over the last week. I'll see if I have any evidence of screen shots to prove it, in the meantime this is from right now.

While you're here @JamesIG can you tell me why some of the Auto Stop Loses are so massive?

@JamesIG I'll simply need to make sure the Spread hasn't changed between each trade on the same Instrument. Today could have been very costly if I were Live and Not Demo'ing. Thanks.

Yeah fair enough. It's in the Small Print, maybe it's not even that small, but to go on the fly from 5 to 25.......Dangerous. I'll need to go back to March to see if I had changing Spread then too. Been using this platform since then and had No Idea the Spread could change so dramatically. Each day I see more and more reason to stay Clear of SB and simply go to Share dealing directly. However, all that said, I've learned a very important lesson today.

Right folks, probably close to my Posting Limit for today. Her'es an update I wasn't aware of. The Spread can change by the Tick at anytime without notice. Trading the Instrument above. I'm pretty certain I started with a 5pt spread. then it went to £15, then to £25. I didn't even notice till it went to £25 and got stopped out twice.......... What a **** joke and a con this platform is. How can you justify going from £5 to £25 without notice?? Jeeeeez. Still learning.

Well...................Somehow on this stock the Spread changed from 15pt to 25!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anyone shed any light on this??? Down £120 on my profits today.

Dammit. Another immediate stop out because of the large spread on this. I placed an Order at 8730, but it activated 15pts away so immediately stopped me out for -£40.

This is the same chart setup @dmedin but look where it is now, between support and resistance. In the past I'd anticipate the drop or rise only for it to reverse. FOMO would get me. I'll not touch this now till it's either at the top or bottom of my lines, then wait for a new line to be created. It could still take my profit back though.

Check this out. Perfect setup. Waited for the drop to go past support. Stop loss at resistance. This baby dropped for a quick £40. I've not had breakfast yet and usually only start after US open, but if it's there, it's there.

Sorry got my Instruments wrong. Lost £41 on this yesterday.

Yes, Indeed, and I'm sure i will lose more to come. However, this is this morning. :D The sun is shining so I'll go play in the garden. @dmedin Check this setup. News yesterday about Airlines being affected by Brexit. Check Also RyanAir and EasyJet! I got 3 drops on this yesterday and this big one this morning. 2k account. Maximum Margin. It can be done,

@Caseynotes by far a great example of what is needed. Ironically, this is my Page 1. However, the Psych is still in development.

@dmedin providing I can keep my head on straight and handle the Fear, then sure. I've no doubt. I can consistently make profit on the demo. I'm not really sure why people have such a hangup about it, other than what i have previously noted. People think I'm using the Full amount and making profit is easy, but I use only 2k per time. Why do you think you're struggling so much with it? It's only risky if you're guessing. 1:1 Profit loss ratio. Look for moves that are about 10-20 stops or more and take a few as it goes up or down. Don't try and beat the breakouts. I've obviously been following your posts. This one especially, but you seem to have overdone you TA reading. I look at the charts. That's it. I don't care for much else, unless there is News to accompany the trade. I think you need a fresh education on it. Don't get me wrong, I Lost today. Technically I'm up, but then lost most of it. It happens. I'll be back on it tomorrow. I've turned on 'One Click' and accidentally closed the 1st trade but went straight back in for +£82. Not the first time I've done this! Total Profit today WOULD have been had I not closed the trade and only let the -£76 run to -£40 =+£90 If all anyone can say is, But it's the Demo, it's not real........then there's little else to talk about. If I can master the Fear, then the strategy is working. This will be the ultimate test moving forward.

It certainly IS the quickest way to lose money, and also the quickest way to make it. Lost this one though. Lesson learned. Stop Loss MUST cover Spread 5pt on this one. Missed that. Hit this 5pts early and reversed.

@TrendFollower I do use the same stop Loss strategy. 1:1. I risk what I hope to take. What will be different is the Stake itself. My exercises to date are to show what is possible and to prove how many times i may be reading the charts correctly. My learning and testing is happening in stages. We'll see where I am by the end of the summer.

Yes this is what I will be doing next week. What's more important to me is the Profit Loss ratio and not the amounts. It would be foolish no .after how much I have to put 340 down to cover a Spread Bet. It would clearly make more sense to buy and sell the shares instead of risking an immediate 340 on a trade.

Right peeps, I'm done for today. All Trades below with a simulated 2k account using Maximum Margin. 1 trade at a time. @dmedin we know it's the Demo, we know the risk, we know the Psychology is not the same. The hardest part is finding decent setups to focus on. Made 2 mistakes today. The FTSE failed immediately so should have got out for -£15. The Nutanix -£50 was a stupid mistake of not adjusting Stop Loss quick enough. Have a great weekend folks. Back on it next week.

The Absolute Greatest Obstacle with IG (not specifically) and Spread Betting, especially on the Basic Retail Platform, is the sheer frustration and general Working Against You fundamental limitation of the ability to Search and Filter the Instruments by Price, %, Spread Size, or Even Open Markets. Phone only. Only available to close etc. etc. Thousands of stocks in order of Alphabetical Order only. The Retail Platform is set up for Gamblers, not Fools. Gamblers who just need to place a Bet, to get a Fix. For the last hour, I've searched the entire European Market for anything that has moved in either 5% or more or 50pts or more. I must click Every Single share only to find it's a 50pts spread, Only available by Phone, or Not available to Short.............................Tedious. It's designed to get you to Sub to Pro Real Time!!!

David, the Long Red Candle before the long green was my Buy In. There was No green. In fact the MACD spread further apart, so I anticipated a further drop. Then the Green Candle and full reversal. I let it fail for the full 10pt stop. -£50. I'll get it back later today. Europe market very slow this morning. US should bring some rewards.

Pahahahahhahahahah, Look at this!!!!!!!!!! I wasn't studying the chart, just had a quick look on FTSE. Been Dropping steadily since 10.20am......... Figured a quick ride for £20...........4 pts.... Reversed lololololololol. You couldn't write this **** :D

@Caseynotes @TrendFollower @dmedin We all know that we must be careful. We all know we must limit risk. We all know we must have a strategy. But we must also have courage, staying power and a strong stomach for losses. Not sure why there'a always so much resistance to Day Trading. I mean yeah, I get it, it's not for everyone. Try not to push so hard against it because it's not something you like, understand or whatever. I don't understand doing this part time. I don't understand only making 2 trades per year. I don't understand why someone would do a 9-5 for 50 years. I've worked for myself or been in education for the last 25 years!!! Let's remember it's all Opinion, and an Opinion is collection of ideas based upon a lack of Fact. Since 3.13 yesterday (I trade after US opens usually-this gives me the entire morning to research), and leaving 2 trades open by accident that luckily continued to go the same way, I achieved this on the Demo, all with a 2k account. But to be honest, i would only be able to place one trade at a time, so in reality i couldn't have placed both. However, what it demonstrates is that even with a 2k account I can move on to the next setup. Add this to the £340 i showed you earlier (though I would NOT make this trade in real life at the moment) but also the -£30 -£50, then it's clear to see, that Demo or Not, the gains are possible. I've posted my lists now several times of my successes on the Demo, but it proves that if you can remove the psychological barrier, success it not only possible, but guaranteed. Is anyone else posting Wins/Losses using the Demo? If it's a simple case of saying It's the Demo, we can all win, I'd like to see them here.