nit2wynit

I see. @TrendFollower So with the same stock but only £1000, you suggest the potential is great to Spread Bet? I'm trying to work out the figures. Any stock at all that is available. £1000 to buy as many shares as possible, Spread betting maximising Margin vs stop loss to the maximum value of £1000. I know this is far from ideal strategy for Spread Betting, I'm just trying to figure out the euation principles of movement up or down. It's obvious that owning shares limits your losses. I can buy £100 and leave them forever, unless they actually Fail completely, but i can't do this with SB as eventually I should be stopped out at a greater loss than £100. So, theoretically, (or even literally if I can find a stock as an example) I buy 100 shares that cost £1000. £100 per share. They go up to £200 per share. I've doubled my money. What would be required, or what would i need to do with SB and the same account value of £1000 only to make, or lose more money? How would I best utilise the £1000?

Yes, i understand that Casey, but in the real world, assuming your knowledge education Strategy, Risk Management is all sound..... Which one will make more money, long or short, with only £1000

Added to the above; With only £1000.

@Caseynotes you are correct, it may be 1 in 1 hundred but when there are thousands of global stocks and screeners to help you, it's not difficult to narrow your watch list down to 3 or more to keep an eye on. What i have not yet achieved, is knowing which broker to go with, that offers L2 DMA etc. This is the gap in my learning. You see, I didn't know what IG was or that in the UK we had Spread betting. It's a completely different beast to what I learned about Day trading and i simply cannot make the same gains using a small account. If i only have £1000 but bought 45 shares of Pinterest (which i did) at it's peak I was up £12 per share, so about £550 in a week. But Pinterest for me is a Long Retirement fund stock. It'll sit there till it fails. With only £1000 available in SB i would not be able to achieve this bacause of the Stop Loss required and the Margin to cover. Even at only £1 per point. i think we can compare apples to oranges all day long, but what it comes down to is a simple question, which is: What will make you more money in Long or Short term? Spread Betting or Share dealing? I'd be interested to hear all of your thoughts on it and examples if possible.

@TrendFollower @Caseynotes it's clear now I've learned enough to get me into trouble fast. hahha. This is shown by my account balance. I've spent 2 months learning charts and platforms. It's time for Stage 2; Actually learning how the market works and defining what it is i want to achieve. I want to do what I see Youtube Day Traders doing. Finding stock that is about to break out. Buying the dip selling the rise. My available funds are now tied up in Pinterest Shares and Sirius Minerals. Trendfollower I don't know what RNS is so that will require research. I want to do what Ross Cameron of Warrior Trading does; Turn $583 dollars in to $1 million in 2 years. Should be easy

@Caseynotes yes it is indeed risky, but what i was hoping to show was what was needed to achieve the same gains between both account; Share dealing vs Spread Betting. Low and Long for SB but all in for Share dealing. Ironically Motif Bio is one of the stock I made considerable gains on in my early days of the Demo. I noticed a News article and then managed to catch the spike. they are currently awaiting FDA approval for a new drug. however the side effects and possible Liver damage is what forced the drop in share price.

All the info above is incorrect again. I'm really struggling with the Price per point and pence denomination of Motif Bio, the spread being a minimum of 0.5 etc. I'm clearly confused. GBP vs GBX. So, as the price is currently around £0.087, which is around 9p per share, I've been confusing my decimal points while making calculations for profit. If the price rises half a penny, or 0.005, It will generate £57 profit. To achieve the same on SB over a 0.005 rise would require a Price per point value of £1160 a 1pt minimum stop loss of £1160 and a Margin of £2865. i think I'll leave this here and never mention it again. Thank for the time to help me out while I figure out my own bad info

@TrendFollower Sure i understand that. But my point is to make money as quickly as I can as safely as I can. Some Small Cap stock can be considered Safe! Clear Trending upwards for instance. But to make any gains with a small £1000 account requires either a Large Price Per Point and Narrow Stop Loss OR Small Price Per Point and Wide Stop Loss. The only downside to this is the Time it takes to generate a profit, which will also tie up my funds. As stated earlier, with £1000 available as an example, i can purchase 11,500 Motif Bio. If it only moves half a penny i can make £575 profit. This is impossible to do with SB and a £1000 account. To make the same gains would require a PPP cost of £1150, a Stop Loss of 4pt or £4600, and a Margin of £2830. Tell me something. What do you recommend Do to make money as a Day Trader? Spread Betting or Share dealing? Thanks.

@trendfollower Motif Bio is UK shares so only available during UK hours. When I try to place a bid to Buy Shares i can buy around 11,500 for £1000. So this makes me think it's obviously 8.7p per share. with 1pt being 1 whole pence. My point being that If I only have £1000, to make the most from my stake I use the full £1000 to cover my margin in Spread Betting (or CFD's) ; The Price per Point is £500. This gives me 2 stops of movement and requires all of my Margin to cover. To cover my stop losses would require around £350 of movement down, minimum. Of course to play the same game with Spread Betting I would need to risk the entire £1000 Margin as a stop loss to take full advantage of the deal. So, here are the facts of it so far: If i buy 11,500 shares it will cost me all £1000 plus the commission cost. If the price rises 0.05pence or Half a Penny, It will generate 0.5x11,500 which is £575. Using Spread Betting would require a stop loss at a minimum of 0.5pt or £250 seeing as I'm going for £500 per point. However, the Spread to place the bet is already 0.5 either way so I'm already £250 under when I place the bet. (figures are now a guess). The final point being that unless i am absolutely certain the chart will move the way i want it, (there is No Certaintly) I must risk my entire £1000 as a stop loss. If the chart moves only 0.05pence I will make around £220 using Spread Betting, but also risk losing it all because of the large stop loss needed to secure future movement. if It moves only 2 whole pence I'm out and down £1000! On paper, Buying Shares is Safer than Spread Betting, but it requires the entire Capital to buy. In short once again, SB can work with a small account but you must play long and with little risk.

£0.087p Sorry. lol. my figures are way off. I didn't realise this was a Pence dealing. I'd make at least double on a £0.05p rise So £575. No wonder I'm losing. hahahah

£0.087p

Hi, all sorry I went quiet mid discussion. Bank holiday weekend and house renovations etc. Anyway, something revealing has just occurred to me. I've mentioned before how i got interested in Share Dealing/Day Trading after watching Warrior Trading. I have assumed thus far, you all know what I'm talking about. Spread betting is not available in the US so it's a unique thing here; and some other countries. But here's the revealing part that was so obvious I missed it; i knew i was missing a huge piece of the puzzle and I just couldn't make the figures work. CFD's vs Spread Betting vs Share Dealing. £1000. Motif Bio Instrument. SB. £1000 Margin. £8.70 share price. If it moves £0.50 I stand to profit roughly £240, No Tax. CFD roughly the same, but losses offset. Share Dealing. £1000 down buys roughly 11,500 shares. (sure it's all capital tied up in shares, but they go up or down) However, a £0.50 rise means a profit of £5750!!!!! I've been doing it all wrong and couldn't make what I'd learned match what i was hoping to do with Spread Betting. I want to Buy and sell shares quickly! Eureka.

@dmedin What is your plan? where are you country wise? What is your account size? What are your Credit card details? lol

@caseynotes I'll check it out though TradingView has a screener too. They are available to find if you look hard enough. I prefer a Beretta

Yes, it is indeed possible, though I find it hard to believe that one could not find a stock to trade for the purpose of an exercise out of many thousands of available options. Maybe you are focussing on a psychological barrier? It's possible you play Long most of the time and it does not suit how you relate to the market and how you normally trade? I have a short attention span and i am impatient. For this reason i understand how i must trade. I need quick answers to most things. My impatience is not a limitation, only the solution to it is. I can work quick and make direct decisions. I live with the result either way. I am spontaneous. This is why Day Trading suits me.

Here's an example of my successes when i started. Of course this is the Demo and using a larger account, but the Picking of the Stock was still a measured activity. I had research to do and a checklist. Ironically it's when I went Live i started failing as the account size was lower and I didn't adjust my Stop Losses and my Stake to match the account size.

erm...:D @Caseynotes That's a bit extreme. lol. there's no pressure at all in Picking Daily stock to trade. It's simply a case of watching for movers, volume, News and and anticipating the breakout either Pre-market or at open. The research can be done the night before then fine tuned into a selection half hour before. All of this is a measured exercise that involves a prerequisite checklist. If the checklist fails on a given stock then it's on to the next one. What i lack at the moment is a source for News. I currently use Trading View and Market Watch but not sure it's giving me what I need. Either way, I'm not currently trading as my finds are tied up with Pinterest. I don't have a Weekly income, so until i have funds free again I'll be using the Demo.

@trendfollower I think you have missed my point entirely. This relates to Day Trading. My Plan, my strategy is to Day Trade. to turn a profit on a daily or weekly basis to provide an income. there are thousands of Instruments available. If you (not you personally) can't find a stock to trade within the day that returns a profit, then I don't think you know what you're doing or how to find profitable stock at least. I lost £400 over 2 week thru poor execution and close Stop Losses. Most of my trades worked, but stopped me out too early. I could almost guarantee i could find a US stock when the market opens and make a profit today, though I'll hold off on the Guarantee haha. You're correct though, you could go so many ways with £1000. the point is to make a decision for the sake of 'The Exercise' to find a suitable stock to trade within the Day and turn a profit. Then highlight why you picked it, what you expected etc.

I've learned so much simply from reading thru this thread, and the biggest learn was about myself. Sure, we all need a Trading Plan; a Strategy, but before all that we need to understand what this is. How it works. The most important tool to have going into ANYTHING, is knowledge and a plan. Fail to Plan, Plan to Fail. I lost £400 on a £1400 starting account, over 2 weeks. The more I lost, the more fear I gained, and the more mistakes I continued to make. However, I got to a point where it all clicked, but then Pinterest happened. I took the £1000 I had left and bought about 45 shares at £24. I watched it go up and make £350 profit in 2 weeks. This would have put me almost back to where I started, which is what i wanted to do as the loss has become a psychological barrier to moving forward. On paper, it's easy. In hindsight it's easy, but moving from the Demo to Live is the worst. The Demo, it's not real money, you can Place a Bet as high as you like because at the back of your mind, it's not real. Maybe we could set up a Demo Thread as an exercise? Using £1000. Pick a stock UK and see where it goes. We can talk about the ideas the day before. What News did we watch, what research etc. What we expect and where we ended up at the end of the day.

What I'd be interested to hear is where you all go for your News? your Tips? Your Insights etc.? What sources can you suggest to start my Day with?

There are clearly many benefits to SB which are becoming very clear, and I may have misjudged the entire thing too quickly. I mentioned earlier that i learned what i wanted to do from Warrior Trading. Buying and Selling small cap stock of £10 and under. In and out. I've discovered today that there are still opportunities to make money with SB, (EOH Holdings went up 50% with the potential to have made £1500 today) but the limit is actually on the platform itself. For instance, the ability to simply arrange the Instruments by Volume, Volatility, Market Cap, Price etc. It's very Basic and absolutely tedious to search thru the entire listing to find anything decent. This of course is where Prorealtime comes in. and it's built in scanner. The basic platform is obviously limited on purpose so that you must invest further and pay for PRT. I'm happy to hear any other suggestions on it?

I see....Well, I'm not a gambler.....So It seems I've found SB and it's not in my favor. I'll take a closer look at options then Thanks

@dmedin I clearly have no idea what Options are. In fact, it's becoming increasingly evident I don't know anything ha. 😮 However, i do know that I was watching EOH Holdings last week and yesterday and waiting for a break out which happened today. Went up 50%. Of course, it's way out of my comfort zone but could have grabbed around 2k today if i was Stupid enough to get involved in it. I couldn't take the risk of it going south on me. Apologies; it's not the right place for this.

I know this can be done, I'm just not sure whether Spread Betting is actually a Good thing or a Bad thing compared to Buying and Selling the stock directly. I need to figure out what would make (or lose) more money compared to physically buying the stock the CFD/Spreadbetting. I belive it was Cadence Minerals about 2 weeks ago. I read the news, watch the chart and anticipated a break out. It went up and up from £13 to £32. Over 300%. I made over £700 on that.......In the Demo But I undertand my main concern has to be how not to Lose money and worry about making it later. I just want to get back to £1400. I'll be going back to the Demo for now.

@TrendFollower regarding your question and why you don't see why I can't take along position on a small priced stock. If it was a guaranteed move (which we all know there are no guarantee's) then sure, i could go long and take a profit at the end, but they don't always move. This is why I would only commit if a suspected price change was imminent; News catalyst. Also the main thing to consider is the cost of the spread is proportional to my stake. Some I have tested to be £50 under before i can even consider profit. It's simpler to buy the stock. My reason for what I'm doing is actually an income. This isn't to be a part time gig. I discovered Ross Cameron from Warrior Trading. Turn $583 into 100k in 90 days. I was watching a few smaller cap stock while using the demo a few weeks back and had some great success, with Motif Bio, Cadence Minerals, Sirius Min and a Shanta Gold and a few others. The thing with spread betting on low price stock is that if it's not moving or has such low value the Spread can be as much as the cost of the stock. For instance, If I bet 1k on a £2 stock with spread betting, the Spread may be as much as £1, plus If i bet £100 per point then I'm already £100 under. If the stock moves only 50p then I'll still be in the red. Not only this, I'll be very much under to start because of the Spread applied. However, If I simply Buy the stock, I pay £5! But Spread Betting is a different Beast. I didn't actually know what It was and that it was in the UK, Ireland and Canada only. (not exhaustive) I've got to take my whole understanding of what I'm doing back to the table. In the meantime, this is what i want to achieve, regardless of how I achieve it. Trade for 2 hours a day and create a 50k per year income.