Jump to content

Market Orders - Something funny going on?


Recommended Posts

This is probably a case of paranoia but I'll ask anyway

I trade gold and silver mostly and many times this phenomenon occurs. I put on a trade at a MARKET ORDER and it seems to fill right at the extreme  wick of a candle and when I put a stop on it it's like the price reaches down to knock it out . 

Look at the chart (The time axis is because I am in asia), In the last hour I put on a LONG Silver trade [AUGUSD] with ProRealTime , I bought in at the (orange circle) I am 99.99% certain I put it on at the yellow line price . Once the trade moved in my favour, I put a stop on at break even (blue circle). It ENTERED and EXITED exactly at the wick, both times

On a such a extremely liquid market I don't see how this happens so much.  The paranoid side of me is thinking this is rigged somehow.  It's just happens too many times to be a coincidence, computer bots, IG ? Surely with the amount of orders going in on gold I can't be landing on the extreme of a candle wick

What's the explanation for this or am I a candidate for the flat earth society  ?

Gold.jpg

Edited by DavyJones
Link to comment
8 minutes ago, mark27 said:

You do know the PRT prices are stuck on the Mid and not Ask or Bid so its never going to look like you get in at the right price looking at the charts

Hi Mark, no that's what the green band is showing, the Bid ASK spread, they match the online platform exactly , You have to add it on to the chart 

Edited by DavyJones
Link to comment

No I know the band is the spread at the current time but on PRT if you hit Buy exactly when price touches your yellow line looking at that chart ,that is not the price you get in at 

That why the little arrow is higher on you buy and lower on your sell

Edited by mark27
updater
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, mark27 said:

No I know the band is the spread at the current time but on PRT if you hit Buy exactly when price touches your yellow line looking at that chart ,that is not the price you get in at 

That why the little arrow is higher on you buy and lower on your sell

 

I don't quite get that, that's the point of the ASK price, sure there can be some slippage but its not a certainty to be filled at a worse price that the ASK,  

 

In any case that doesn't explain in a highly liquid market why the order gets filled at the extreme of the 2min wicks. Law of probability would suggest it somewhere in the middle.  

 

 

Link to comment
21 minutes ago, mark27 said:

You do know the PRT prices are stuck on the Mid and not Ask or Bid so its never going to look like you get in at the right price looking at the charts

 

You do know that you're a knuckledragging, mouthbreathing moron, don't you?

Link to comment
5 minutes ago, DavyJones said:

On a such a extremely liquid market I don't see how this happens so much.  The paranoid side of me is thinking this is rigged somehow.  It's just happens too many times to be a coincidence, computer bots, IG ? Surely with the amount of orders going in on gold I can't be landing on the extreme of a candle wick

Buying the close of a strong bull bar is perfectly reasonable when expecting continuation upward, the stop is the problem.

Initially your stop was at A in my pic but then after a new low at B you moved it up but before price had passed the new prior high, that would have been the better time to raise it.

As it was you joined the stops of those new entries at the pin bar new low (B).

Everyone knows where the stops are, a big player can hit them with precision.

The large red bar down was a stop hunt to capture those long contracts (including yours), a strong bear bar with no attempt at continuation but steady buying instead.

It is very usual for your entry to get tested  but I don't like to see price go to far towards my stop, I would avoid the break even stops and if not willing to leave it below the low would put it behind the entry rather than on it.

image.png.f3779f496d7298a8d7bab932b04706a0.png

 

 

 

Link to comment

On PRT you cant adjust what prices you see so they are all Mid prices .so if using their chart you have to account for the spread.

So for example if trading Dax the spread is 1.2 .If you see the high of the day is 12000 and want to go long at that price you have to enter 12000.6 which is half the spread.

So basically you have to add half the spread to orders .Its easier if what your trading is fixed spread its always the same,But if you are trading something with variable spreads its harder to account for it.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
24 minutes ago, mark27 said:

On PRT you cant adjust what prices you see so they are all Mid prices .so if using their chart you have to account for the spread.

So for example if trading Dax the spread is 1.2 .If you see the high of the day is 12000 and want to go long at that price you have to enter 12000.6 which is half the spread.

So basically you have to add half the spread to orders .Its easier if what your trading is fixed spread its always the same,But if you are trading something with variable spreads its harder to account for it.

 

 
 
 

 

You're a bit simple, aren't you.  :) 

Link to comment
54 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Buying the close of a strong bull bar is perfectly reasonable when expecting continuation upward, the stop is the problem.

Initially your stop was at A in my pic but then after a new low at B you moved it up but before price had passed the new prior high, that would have been the better time to raise it.

As it was you joined the stops of those new entries at the pin bar new low (B).

Everyone knows where the stops are, a big player can hit them with precision.

The large red bar down was a stop hunt to capture those long contracts (including yours), a strong bear bar with no attempt at continuation but steady buying instead.

It is very usual for your entry to get tested  but I don't like to see price go to far towards my stop, I would avoid the break even stops and if not willing to leave it below the low would put it behind the entry rather than on it.

image.png.f3779f496d7298a8d7bab932b04706a0.png

 

 

 

 

cheers, I am playing around with stops , its hard to know what to do . I found that with stops, you often get knocked out by a sharp downward wick, In fact trailing stops seem to have this effect, not sure. Then if you don't use them you need to be watching the screen  all day. I guess this is why back testing is somewhat limited as you are missing the real time limits and stops which influence the price 

On that particular trade yes I moved the stop to breakeven but as the price approached it I thought about removing the stop, then talked myself out of it for lack of discipline. 

I need to read up on the mechanics of what specifically happens under spread bet. Did you have an suggestions for a link?

Link to comment
1 hour ago, mark27 said:

On PRT you cant adjust what prices you see so they are all Mid prices .so if using their chart you have to account for the spread.

So for example if trading Dax the spread is 1.2 .If you see the high of the day is 12000 and want to go long at that price you have to enter 12000.6 which is half the spread.

So basically you have to add half the spread to orders .Its easier if what your trading is fixed spread its always the same,But if you are trading something with variable spreads its harder to account for it.

Sorry Mark really not following , every trade has the BID ASK attached in PRT, it usually fills at this price

FTSE.jpg

Link to comment
4 minutes ago, DavyJones said:

Sorry Mark really not following , every trade has the BID ASK attached in PRT, it usually fills at this price

FTSE.jpg

So Buy@6037.7 say.On the chart the price is 6037.2 .So your entry level arrow will be higher 

I`m just answering the question of when you said you thought you bought at the yellow line but it is higher on the charts that all.I know you are questioning other aspects but all I was pointing out is on PRT prices are mid that all

Link to comment

Stop placement is probably the hardest thing to do with a profitable trade - only thing i can suggest is that you should know exactly where your stop and trailing stop are going before you get into a trade

Swing lows are obvious but as you've seen a nice wash and rinse can happen at that point

Can you repost the original chart and show where you're initial stop was placed?

Link to comment
1 hour ago, DavyJones said:

I need to read up on the mechanics of what specifically happens under spread bet. Did you have an suggestions for a link?

 

31 minutes ago, THT said:

Stop placement is probably the hardest thing to do with a profitable trade

Yes, stops are probably more difficult to mange than the entry. If you are looking to understand the thinking of a day trader on a candle by candle basis I would suggest some of Al Brooks's books or videos.

This one for instance looks at getting into a trend late, entering long on a bull candle close, where the stop must go and so therefore what the position size must be, scaling in and averaging, getting out at average break-even if needed, etc.

Very dry, matter of fact, dear I say dull presentation (same as the books) but worth persevering with.

 

 

Link to comment

cheers man, will watching as I type . I am jumping around from strategy to strategy too much.

I will start a new testing plan tomorrow, For an hour a day, I will go through a charts bar by bar testing an example strategy like the one above, and see if I can narrow in from there  

Link to comment

I was going to offer some advice - anyway, if it were me the initial stop would have been somewhere on that green entry bar and then it would have been trailed upwards to preserve a % of open profits so that a profitable trade did not turn into a b/e trade or loss

 

Link to comment
38 minutes ago, DavyJones said:

cheers man, will watching as I type . I am jumping around from strategy to strategy too much.

I will start a new testing plan tomorrow, For an hour a day, I will go through a charts bar by bar testing an example strategy like the one above, and see if I can narrow in from there  

 

23 minutes ago, THT said:

I was going to offer some advice - anyway, if it were me the initial stop would have been somewhere on that green entry bar and then it would have been trailed upwards to preserve a % of open profits so that a profitable trade did not turn into a b/e trade or loss

 

that's correct, there are many ways to play it but nothing works for everything, the only way to know for your preferred time frame on your preferred market is by testing.

The good news is that testing doesn't cost money, only time. 

The easiest way to test is by keeping a win% score and using a fixed risk:reward then plot the score on to the profitability chart below (more detail in the Trade Planning and Testing thread).

image.png.298b4fd4a197b694914dae0e699984eb.png

 

 

Link to comment
  • 2 years later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • image.png

  • Posts

    • Wheat Elliott Wave Analysis Function - Counter Trend Mode - Corrective Structure -Zigzag for wave (B) Position - Wave A of (B) Direction - Wave A is still in play Details -  Wave A of (B) is about to complete and thus, we should see a bullish correction for wave B soon. Wheat prices are currently retreating, but as long as they do not breach the March 2024 low, there is a significant chance that the recovery from March will continue. The long-term trend remains bearish, and the current recovery phase is retracing this trend and may extend much higher.   Daily Chart Analysis: On the daily chart, the bearish trend that extended from March 2022 to March 2024 completed an impulse wave structure. From the low of 523’4 in March 2024, a bullish correction began as expected. The initial response off 523’4 completed an impulse rally, indicating that this corrective phase could evolve into either a zigzag or a double zigzag structure. Thus, we expect at least a zigzag pattern composed of waves (A), (B), and (C). The surge from the March 2024 low completed wave (A) with an impulse, and the price is now correcting this in wave (B). After the completion of wave (B), we should see another leg higher in wave (C). This is the minimum expectation for the current recovery phase in Wheat.   H4 Chart Analysis: The H4 chart focuses on wave (B). The decline from the wave (A) top at 720’4 completed an impulse. A pullback for wave (B) is expected to be a corrective structure. However, the decline so far has completed an impulse wave, which could now be labeled as wave A of (B). This suggests that wave (B) should continue its formation in the near term. It is likely that wave (B) will take the form of another zigzag pattern (A-B-C), as long as the 523’6 low is not breached. If this level is breached, it would imply that the long-term bullish correction has either completed very shallowly, or a more complex scenario must be considered to better understand the situation.   Summary: Wheat prices are retreating but as long as the March 2024 low of 523’4 remains intact, the recovery from March is likely to continue. The long-term trend is bearish, and the current recovery is a retracement of this trend, which may extend much higher.    On the daily chart, the bearish impulse wave from March 2022 to March 2024 completed at 523’4, initiating a bullish correction. The initial rally completed wave (A) with an impulse, and the price is now correcting this in wave (B). We expect at least a zigzag pattern (A-B-C) for this corrective phase.   On the H4 chart, the decline from wave (A) at 720’4 completed an impulse, which is likely wave A of (B). Wave (B) should continue forming, likely as a zigzag pattern, as long as the 523’6 low is not breached. If the low is breached, it would indicate that the long-term bullish correction is either complete or a more complex scenario needs to be considered to accurately read the market conditions. Technical Analyst : Sanmi Adeagbo Source : Tradinglounge.com get trial here!  
    • DAX (Germany) Elliott Wave Analysis Trading Lounge Day Chart DAX (Germany) Elliott Wave Technical Analysis FUNCTION: Trend MODE: corrective STRUCTURE:orange wave 4 POSITION:navy blue wave 3 DIRECTION NEXT HIGHER DEGREES: orange wave 5 DETAILS After orange wave 3 now orange wave 4 of navy blue wave 3 still is in play and looking near to end. Wave Cancel invalid level: 16997.26. The DAX Germany Elliott Wave analysis on the day chart provides insights into the current market trend using a corrective mode. The focus is on the structure and progression of the waves within the Elliott Wave framework. The analysis identifies the structure as orange wave 4, which is positioned within the larger navy blue wave 3.   The function of this analysis is to track the ongoing trend in the DAX market, currently characterized by a corrective phase. The corrective mode indicates a temporary counter-trend movement that interrupts the primary trend direction, typical in Elliott Wave theory. This corrective phase is part of the broader navy blue wave 3.   The direction for the next higher degrees is identified as orange wave 5. This suggests that once the corrective phase of orange wave 4 concludes, the market is expected to resume its upward trend into orange wave 5, continuing the larger impulsive movement within navy blue wave 3.   The detailed analysis reveals that after completing orange wave 3, the market has entered orange wave 4 of navy blue wave 3. This corrective wave is still in play but appears to be nearing its end. The conclusion of orange wave 4 will likely mark the transition to the next impulsive phase, orange wave 5, within the ongoing trend.   A critical aspect of this analysis is the wave cancel invalid level, set at 16997.26. This level serves as an essential benchmark for validating the current wave structure. If the market price drops below this level, it would invalidate the current wave count, necessitating a reevaluation of the Elliott Wave analysis and potentially altering the market outlook.   In summary, the DAX Germany day chart analysis indicates that the market is currently in a corrective phase within orange wave 4, which is part of the larger navy blue wave 3. With the completion of orange wave 3, the market has transitioned into the corrective phase of orange wave 4, which is nearing its end. The wave cancel invalid level at 16997.26 is crucial for confirming the current wave count and guiding future market expectations based on Elliott Wave principles.   DAX (Germany) Elliott Wave Analysis Trading Lounge Weekly Chart, DAX (Germany) Elliott Wave Technical Analysis FUNCTION: Trend MODE: corrective STRUCTURE:orange wave 4 POSITION:navy blue wave 3 DIRECTION NEXT HIGHER DEGREES: orange wave 5 DETAILS After orange wave 3 now orange wave 4 of navy blue wave 3 still is in play and looking near to end. Wave Cancel invalid level: 16944.47.   The DAX Germany Elliott Wave analysis on the weekly chart provides a detailed view of the market trend, applying the principles of Elliott Wave theory in a corrective mode. The structure under focus is orange wave 4, positioned within the larger navy blue wave 3. The function of this analysis is to monitor the ongoing market trend, which is currently experiencing a corrective phase.   In Elliott Wave terms, a corrective mode indicates a temporary pause or counter-trend movement that interrupts the primary trend direction. Here, the primary trend is navy blue wave 3, and the market is currently navigating through the corrective phase of orange wave 4.   The next higher degree direction is identified as orange wave 5, suggesting that once the corrective phase of orange wave 4 concludes, the market is anticipated to resume its upward trend, moving into orange wave 5. This would continue the impulsive movement within the broader navy blue wave 3.   The analysis details that after completing orange wave 3, the market has now entered orange wave 4 of navy blue wave 3. This corrective wave is still active but appears to be nearing its end. Once orange wave 4 concludes, the market is expected to transition into the next impulsive phase, orange wave 5, in alignment with the ongoing trend.   A critical element of this analysis is the wave cancel invalid level, set at 16944.47. This level acts as a vital benchmark for confirming the current wave structure. If the market price drops below this level, it would invalidate the existing wave count, necessitating a re-evaluation of the Elliott Wave analysis and potentially altering the market outlook.   In summary, the DAX Germany weekly chart analysis indicates that the market is currently in a corrective phase within orange wave 4, which is part of the larger navy blue wave 3. After completing orange wave 3, the market has transitioned into the corrective phase of orange wave 4, which is nearing its end. The wave cancel invalid level at 16944.47 is crucial for validating the current wave count and guiding future market expectations based on Elliott Wave principles.   Technical Analyst : Malik Awais Source : Tradinglounge.com get trial 6!  
    • The overnight session in Asia saw stocks hovering near two-year highs, as investors awaited more policy clues from the US. The pound was steady ahead of the Bank of England's meeting, where interest rates are expected to remain unchanged. The  dollar index was little changed, while the euro held steady against the dollar. The euphoria around AI has fueled a surge in tech stocks, driving US indices to record highs and boosting Asian markets as well. US markets were closed for the Juneteenth holiday, leading to a quiet session on Wednesday for European markets, but reopen today, with the Nasdaq 100 now above 20,000 for the first time. Today's calendar sees the release of weekly US jobless claims, eurozone consumer confidence and EIA crude oil inventories (delayed from yesterday), as well as the Bank of England's latest rate decision.
×
×
  • Create New...
us