ESMA RULING AND WHAT I AM DOING

[JohnRoxton]

3 hours ago, Medusa123 said:

I can't find the thread to post this entry on - it is the one started by James re ESMA

I have now opened an account with IC Markets which I will try out - they are a very young company but they do seem to be OK.    I value freedom and I refuse to bend down under ESMA's rulings so decided to 'walk' as this negates ESMA's power over me and what it is trying to do which is to make me a slave.   I do hope many others will not bow down to the Master Esma wants to be.

Hilsden Trading website are also recommending IC Markets. 

Thing that is a bit odd is that IG Australia say our money is not protected as with the  FCA in the UK but they have a very good ombudsman.

IC Markets say that our money is completely safe with them and is ring fenced like IG UK. 

 

[JohnRoxton]

4 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

If you haven't seen this already it answers some questions if you are looking to open an account outside the esma zone, it's a comparison of what IG can offer under each countries own regulations.

https://www.ig.com/uk/compare-our-leveraged-trading

Yes I saw that in the email but I read that Switzerland are going to follow the ESMA ruling.

[Caseynotes]

14 minutes ago, JohnRoxton said:

Yes I saw that in the email but I read that Switzerland are going to follow the ESMA ruling.

Hi @JohnRoxton,  where did you see that? I would hope IG would have done their research before creating the page which is fairly new and the Swiss office must be aware of any imminent changes.   ?

[JohnRoxton]

20 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Hi @JohnRoxton,  where did you see that? I would hope IG would have done their research before creating the page which is fairly new and the Swiss office must be aware of any imminent changes.   ?

Hi @Caseynotes, fortunately I think I must have misunderstood. I was looking at countries outside the ESMA ruling back in the spring and I was sure I read that Switzerland was going to fall into line for ease of access to EU markets etc. But it may be for the MiFID II ruling only.

I just read that a bank headquartered in CH is free of the ESMA laws, so that's good news. 

Sorry for the scare and confusion!

[Caseynotes]

Understandable @JohnRoxton, so many border countries are one foot in, one out and always under pressure from the EU to comply so thanks for the update.

[trade247]

59 minutes ago, JohnRoxton said:

Hilsden Trading website are also recommending IC Markets. 

well yes ... on their website there is a massive referral link so they're making bank for everyone who signs up there.

1 hour ago, JohnRoxton said:

Thing that is a bit odd is that IG Australia say our money is not protected as with the  FCA in the UK but they have a very good ombudsman.

IC Markets say that our money is completely safe with them and is ring fenced like IG UK. 

FCA isn't in Aus so obviously Aus IG can't protect money with FCA.... They are regulated tho by their relevant party.

[JohnRoxton]

3 minutes ago, cryptotrader said:

well yes ... on their website there is a massive referral link so they're making bank for everyone who signs up there.

FCA isn't in Aus so obviously Aus IG can't protect money with FCA.... They are regulated tho by their relevant party.

Yes, I should have written that more clearly. I meant IG Aus said that money held there is not protected by the Aus equivalent of the FCA, would that be the ASIC? 

But having said that I have seen this page which now states that client money is very well protected in Aus.

Maybe I was getting it confused with a government banking compensation scheme if a bank fails such as we have here in the UK. Sorry for any confusion, here is the link to IG Aus money protection:

https://www.ig.com/au/client-money-protection

[trade247]

1 minute ago, JohnRoxton said:

Yes, I should have written that more clearly. I meant IG Aus said that money held there is not protected by the Aus equivalent of the FCA, would that be the ASIC? 

But having said that I have seen this page which now states that client money is very well protected in Aus.

Maybe I was getting it confused with a government banking compensation scheme if a bank fails such as we have here in the UK. Sorry for any confusion, here is the link to IG Aus money protection:

https://www.ig.com/au/client-money-protection

yeh like you said. https://www.ig.com/au/about-us shows ASIC (not the sports shoe company) Maybe @JamesIG can confirm.

[Caseynotes]

Yes, ASIC is Australia's version of the FCA. Account protection of up up £50,000 is provided by the FSCS (this is also the 'bank protection scheme') in the UK but there is no equivalent protection scheme in Australia. The regulatory authority in both UK and Australia (FCA and ASIC) demand client funds are held in a separate account to the brokers (ring fenced).  

[JohnRoxton]

1 minute ago, Caseynotes said:

Yes, ASIC is Australia's version of the FCA. Account protection of up up £50,000 is provided by the FSCS (this is also the 'bank protection scheme') in the UK but there is no equivalent protection scheme in Australia. The regulatory authority in both UK and Australia (FCA and ASIC) demand client funds are held in a separate account to the brokers (ring fenced).  

That's good news. Thanks for confirming.

[Guest Medusa123]

Hi FFS Daytrader,

 

It is usually best to do your own research but this what I have found out re IC Australia...........

They are fully regulated by ASIC the equivalnt of the FCA

Minimum funding is $200 but there is no minimum after the first funding.  No maximum on withdrawals.

Clients money is kept in segregated accounts

Fund and hold account in £ sterling.   Hope this helps.

I cannot fund my account at the moment as my printer had just broken down - I need to upload documents for identity before I can trade.

[Guest Tinkertrader]

 it’s easier and less risk to go to ig in oz isn’t it? Why the **** would i go to some unknown broker who are only coming up now because of esma? Seems dodgy to me. 

Ill stick with what I know.

[JohnRoxton]

32 minutes ago, Guest Tinkertrader said:

 it’s easier and less risk to go to ig in oz isn’t it? Why the **** would i go to some unknown broker who are only coming up now because of esma? Seems dodgy to me. 

Ill stick with what I know.

Yes I think you're right. Stick with the established names to be safe.

[Guest Medusa123]

Good for you Guest Tinkertrader - by the way IC are only coming up because I was looking for another company who did not have to obey EU rulings, and also I like what they seem to be offering.   All brokers are unknown to us until we try them,  and you had to try IG once upon a time and obviously liked them

[Caseynotes]

Hi @Medusa123,  just wondering, did you talk to IG Australia? Already being an IG client the sign up for an IG Australian account might be much simpler than starting fresh with a new company and as well avoiding the esma regulations.  

[JohnRoxton]

Can anyone at IG tell us if UK clients need to go through the whole ID process again if opening a new a/c in IG Aus please?

Or is our IG UK a/c satisfactory proof enough for Aus?

Thanks

[JamesIG]

1 hour ago, JohnRoxton said:

Can anyone at IG tell us if UK clients need to go through the whole ID process again if opening a new a/c in IG Aus please?

Or is our IG UK a/c satisfactory proof enough for Aus?

Thanks

Hey @JohnRoxton - If the original verification is in date we can use that if you are signing up to our Australian office. If the original documents to verify identity have expired we would need to redo the process. However if you are applying to our Swiss office, then verification has to be all new.

[JohnRoxton]

4 minutes ago, JamesIG said:

Hey @JohnRoxton - If the original verification is in date we can use that if you are signing up to our Australian office. If the original documents to verify identity have expired we would need to redo the process. However if you are applying to our Swiss office, then verification has to be all new.

Thanks James,

Is there any difference in regards trading rules between the Swiss & Aus offices?

Thanks

[JohnRoxton]

Is there any practical difference between spread betting and trading CFD's?

I mean on the charts, opening and closing trades  etc?

Thanks

[Guest 202925]

On 7/21/2018 at 12:48 PM, PandaFace said:

@202925 What on earth are you talking about? IG isn’t ‘the house’ in the same way a casino is. Why ON EARTH would you have an account with them if you thought that? Seems kinda dumb... 

also in my opinion the rules for professional are pretty clear. How have they changed the goal posts? Would be interested to hear. 

I read something in the paper the other day where something like 900k people applied for an account and only 120k odd were opened - I can’t remember the time frame. Also something like tens of thousands of people have applied for a professional account so no wonder your not getting a personalised response. 

Go figure ?

Have you applied for Professional Status Panda Face? If not- which I think so, then please do not comment on something for which you have no experience.

And IG is the house- if you lose money- where does it go? They are not a charity

 

 

 

[JohnRoxton]

1 hour ago, 202925 said:

Have you applied for Professional Status Panda Face? If not- which I think so, then please do not comment on something for which you have no experience.

And IG is the house- if you lose money- where does it go? They are not a charity

 

 

 

Actually I think if you lose or win money it goes to or comes from the other traders who have an opposing view to your trade. That was my understanding anyway. 

If you win on a long trade your profits come from those who went short and lost.

IG makes its money from the spread or from fixed charges if not a spread bet.

Just my thoughts.

[FFS_Daytrader]

The bar for attaining Professional Trader status is very high (IMOA) and I doubt many normal traders will have the actually hit all three criteria required to covert to Professional status.

As I commented before, I have been with IG a long time and as a UK resident; am comfortable with service provided by IG as a UK entity.

Do “we” really want to jump through hoops to circumvent rules which actually (if you look at it with a clear head) can/will have minimal impact on normal trading bar the increase in margin (which I agree is disproportionate to outgoing margins).

I am looking at other brokers but will trade under the new ESMA rules for a while to see and assess impact/restrictions on my trades and orders.

Whilst I am in agreement with you all regarding the ESMA rules; let’s take a breath, pause and most importantly THINK before jumping from frying pan in to an “unknown” fire.

Edited July 28, 2018 by FFS_Daytrader

[Guest GbemiO]

Will IG UK consider creating micro contracts for those of us with small accounts? Because the new margin requirement is just too much for even mini contracts . I understand the rules are there to protect our funds, but there will be nothing to protect if I can't even trade in the first instance (Well perharps my capital)

[JohnRoxton]

1 hour ago, FFS_Daytrader said:

The bar for attaining Professional Trader status is very high (IMOA) and I doubt many normal traders will have the actually hit all three criteria required to covert to Professional status.

As I commented before, I have been with IG a long time and as a UK resident; am comfortable with service provided by IG as a UK entity.

Do “we” really want to jump through hoops to circumvent rules which actually (if you look at it with a clear head) can/will have minimal impact on normal trading bar the increase in margin (which I agree is disproportionate to outgoing margins).

I am looking at other brokers but will trade under the new ESMA rules for a while to see and assess impact/restrictions on my trades and orders.

Whilst I am in agreement with you all regarding the ESMA rules; let’s take a breath, pause and most importantly THINK before jumping from frying pan in to an “unknown” fire.

Good points.

If I have understood the ESMA rules on leverage then trading major FX on the lower time frames (5 min & 2 min) will require a IG balance of around £2300-2500 for a spread bet of £5 per pip?

Is that correct? It's what IG suggested in an email last month (if I read it correctly).

Major FX is the least "damaged" option for home traders followed by major indices.

So trading cable would require a balance as shown above to a £5 stake and DAX would bring it up to about £3000.

Thanks

 

[Caseynotes]

57 minutes ago, GbemiO said:

Will IG UK consider creating micro contracts for those of us with small accounts? Because the new margin requirement is just too much for even mini contracts . I understand the rules are there to protect our funds, but there will be nothing to protect if I can't even trade in the first instance (Well perharps my capital)

Hi @GbemiO, That has been raised recently on the forum but without comment from IG.

IG has announced they will be releasing a range of new CFD (/ spread betting?) products that are ESMA compliant in the near future but no details given as yet. 

Mini contracts (1/10) are already available on the CFD platform and on the MT4 spread betting platform.

[Guest GbemiO]

@Caseynotes Thank you for the reply. I hope they do cos a lot of traders like me would have to look elsewhere.

[Guest GbemiO]

On 7/27/2018 at 5:46 PM, JohnRoxton said:

Can anyone at IG tell us if UK clients need to go through the whole ID process again if opening a new a/c in IG Aus please?

Or is our IG UK a/c satisfactory proof enough for Aus?

Thanks

I registered with IG Australia  yesterday and I was not asked for any ID...just NI number . The account seems active enough and ready to trade with.

[Caseynotes]

Hi @GbemiO, thanks for the info, have you funded the account, where there any problems on that side?

[Guest Stephen]

One of the issues if you use your Paypal account to transfer money in to your UK account , you can't use the same Paypal account on different IG accounts.

[JohnRoxton]

If anybody is interested I just put my charts up and on DAX a £1 spread bet requires a margin of £641.62 so my stakes will have to be reduced but to be honest I am pleased overall compared to the shock at the beginning of the year when IG first wrote of this ESMA change. I thought I wouldn't be able to trade at all.