Is spread betting for fools?

[dmedin]

Just lost more than £20 on a sudden reversal on brent crude.

Total mug's game, but I keep coming back day after day to get sh*fted

[dmedin]

28 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

I'm trading to free up time.  Money is the bonus ball

 

If TA can't help to make profitable trades then it's a total f*king waste of time ... I'd rather waste money on hookers and booze.

[dmedin]

19 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Wehey.....Up £20  a Win

Watch JD Sports tomorrow morning - it will stop, reverse and fall back below 660 and give me a loss.

Guaran-fecking-teed.

TA my backside ...

[nit2wynit]

@dmedin......................

The (guesstimating here) average Daily point movement on JD is anything from 1pt to 10pt  In an Entire Day!


Why the actual **** would you trade such a slow moving Target?  You'd need to place a minmum of £100pp and hope it went Up for 8 straight hours just to make anything.

Who or what told you JD was a good trade Idea? :O
 

Edited September 10, 2019 by nit2wynit

[nit2wynit]

1 hour ago, dmedin said:

Just lost more than £20 on a sudden reversal on brent crude.

Total mug's game, but I keep coming back day after day to get sh*fted

Show me where you placed the trade and lost it?

[dmedin]

30 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

@dmedin......................

The (guesstimating here) average Daily point movement on JD is anything from 1pt to 10pt  In an Entire Day!


Why the actual **** would you trade such a slow moving Target?  You'd need to place a minmum of £100pp and hope it went Up for 8 straight hours just to make anything.

Who or what told you JD was a good trade Idea? 😮
 

 

Why not pick a 'slow moving' target and hold on to it for a while?  It made a new high.  Dow Theory and sh!t.

The only 'advantage' to trading on minute charts is you lose your money much faster.

I'm telling you, the only people who don't lose f*kloads of money are the ones who sit and do 'analysis' all day and never actually place a trade.  Because 99 out of 100 times you will get stopped out and lose your money, it's designed that way. 

I'm sure this is one of the reasons why it's illegal in the USA because they recognize it for what it is.

Edited September 10, 2019 by dmedin

[nit2wynit]

Sorry.  Being a total tool.  That didn't come out right.  I thought you were already in the Trade and the Breakout was a part of a happy accident.  My bad.  

Why did you trade so low on it and get in so late?

I've made trades Live like I showed you today, back in April.  But I wasn't consistent and Over traded.  I lost most of my money chasing Indicies and Gold.

Of course, your JD set up is perfect, but I think you left it a little late to get in and didn't risk enough per point.  There's a perfect get in at 641 on the 1M.  Also you've nailed why you should have got out.  What goes up usually comes down.

Be out by the end of the day.  i think you can only go Long if you're trading with 100k account and can cover stops of hundreds of points per week.

Edited September 10, 2019 by nit2wynit

[nit2wynit]

5 minutes ago, dmedin said:

I'm telling you, the only people who don't lose f*kloads of people are the ones who sit and do 'analysis' all day and never actually place a trade. 

I will prove it to you before the year is out

[dmedin]

29 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Why did you trade so low on it and get in so late?

I've lost a lot recently, and would have bet more on JD (£5 or more if I had enough) because that breakout was very significant.

[Gaby]

Hi there.

In my first year I lost money; a genuine massacre. But I did not give-up, as I am quite resilient and kept going in trading and losing money again and again in the second and the third year. Until the forth year, where I reached the break-even. Now I am constantly and largely profitable, quarter after quarter, since last 4 years.

I learnt how to trade the hard way. It is quite a common path, I discovered later reading the Market Wizards - a book I suggest you read - a collection of interviews done by Jack Schwager to a group of worldwide top traders. So funny to discover I was not alone having burnt my account at the beginning of my trading experience.

The game is complex and lots of things influence your performance, including your emotions when you see the P&L in deep red. For that, it was very helpful to me to discover my limits: how much money I can afford to lose without losing my emotional control, sleeping hours or my temper - I also had moment where I was unpleasant with my family. But this is not acceptable, as you wrote. How much money can I lose without caring? 50 pounds? 500 pounds? 5000 pounds? 50000? It is all personal and you need to ask yourself what is your limit, as this should size your trade. 

At the end It is a game of probabilities and the more you trade the more you have opportunities to finalize your trading strategy/strategies, selecting only the ones with high probability of success. But nobody is right 100% and some of then will go wrong. Also for the suggestions given by Trade of the weeks: no discounts for anybody. But listen: the market is not fake and nobody is conspiring against you or anybody. Don't take this perspective to quit. There are retail traders (like me) that are constantly making profit.

The break-even is an outstanding results, as you are - at this point - on the top quartile.  Learning when not to trade  also improved my performance a lot - as you cannot lose when all your positions are closed. As we speak, I am out of all markets and this is average 70% of the time. I take a trade only when all the homework is signalling high probability of success and from the past I scaled down from 20 trades a week to approx 2 or 3. Or sometimes zero.

For every single trade I also write a lot, in my trading journal. Not just the pre-analysis, why I have selected the trade, the overall risk assessment and the related stop, the target price, all the multi-frame chart analysis . But also I record what happens during the trade: I write how the market is moving, the intensity of waves. And I also record my level of emotional reaction during the trade: from 1 to 10 I want to know if the trade was completely emotional agnostic or if I lost my sleeping. At the end, you need to be a Marine soldier studying every centimeter of the the battle field, to survive. Including you.

Keep going with just 1 pip per trade - small money, but real trades. Don't give up. Improve your strategy, record your performance and try to understand when and why you have been successful or not.

One day you will reach the profitability. Good luck.

[Caseynotes]

16 hours ago, nit2wynit said:

@dmedin Can you see this?  Take a look.  However, most of the time the Stocks he has in his list are often unavailable here.
 

 

Very informative video, now have I got this straight? you don' like the IG's cdf (sb) platform for trading small US stocks that probably do small volume with UK traders, I pointed you to the DMA platform which you looked at but didn't follow up on, and now post the above video where the guy you are trying to emulate tells us he is paying $250 A DAY for his DMA share trading platform and connections (exc trade commissions) to trade these US small cap 'gappers'. 

[nit2wynit]

4 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

you don' like the IG's cdf (sb) platform for trading small US stocks that probably do small volume with UK traders

I do like the platform.  It's easy to use and navigate, but it's not the fastest or smoothest of several other UK platforms I've tried.

4 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

I pointed you to the DMA platform which you looked at but didn't follow up on

I did follow up on it and it's being considered, but the extra learning and costs involved have caused me to rethink and since then I've gone back to my initial idea which is to find and trade breakouts.  However, I knew what it was and where it was as I downloaded the Trail in April but never used it.  Spread Betting in the UK is Beneficial as an alternative to Share Dealing because of the costs involved, but at the expense of Instruments available to trade. (thousands of other people around the world trade Breakouts in the same manner he is showing.  This Guy is not God.  Trading breakouts is not new.  I follow Ross because he shares each day his Watchlist and then a Recap the next day of his trades.  Win or Lose.)  What he uses Now being a 'Millionaire' is of little concern to me.  I'm interested in what is needed to succeed.  From what I can see he has been on YT since 2014 showing his trades.

I'm not sure there was a question in here Casey?

[Caseynotes]

3 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

I do like the platform.  It's easy to use and navigate, but it's not the fastest or smoothest of several other UK platforms I've tried.

I did follow up on it and it's being considered, but the extra learning and costs involved have caused me to rethink and since then I've gone back to my initial idea which is to find and trade breakouts.  However, I knew what it was and where it was as I downloaded the Trail in April but never used it.  Spread Betting in the UK is Beneficial as an alternative to Share Dealing because of the costs involved, but at the expense of Instruments available to trade. (thousands of other people around the world trade Breakouts in the same manner he is showing.  This Guy is not God.  Trading breakouts is not new.  I follow Ross because he shares each day his Watchlist and then a Recap the next day of his trades.  Win or Lose.)  What he uses Now being a 'Millionaire' is of little concern to me.  I'm interested in what is needed to succeed.  From what I can see he has been on YT since 2014 showing his trades.

I'm not sure there was a question in here Casey?

yes, that's understandable and no there wasn't really a question  but just pointing out that the tools he is using to do the job are very expensive to get the results he claims and that the DMA was key which is available via IG. I'm assuming he is hooked up to all the big US exchanges to trade the companies on his watchlist that you are trying to copy and you would need to do the same.

[nit2wynit]

9 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

yes, that's understandable and no there wasn't really a question  but just pointing out that the tools he is using to do the job are very expensive to get the results he claims and that the DMA was key which is available via IG. I'm assuming he is hooked up to all the big US exchanges to trade the companies on his watchlist that you are trying to copy and you would need to do the same.

I see.  My apologies I thought you were trying to trip me up.

 

He didn't start this way.  But as I've stated in the past he has turned around 600 into 1mil.   Confirmed.  It's all there to see.  

 

He only trades breakouts.  I suggested you do a little more research on him a while back but I'm assuming you didn't.  Plenty of people on the web sharing the same advice and I've proven it myself on the Demo many many times.  I should be able to see success with Spread Betting if I can find the Instruments to trade before market open.

Edited September 11, 2019 by nit2wynit

[Caseynotes]

2 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

He only trades breakouts.  I suggested you do a little more research on him a while back but I'm assuming you didn't.

I did actually and was plagued for months afterwards by adverts to join his 'pay for group' which seemed to be his main business. 

[nit2wynit]

1 minute ago, Caseynotes said:

I did actually and was plagued for months afterwards by adverts to join his 'pay for group' which seemed to be his main business. 

Funny.  I've had similar conversations with Dmedin and people in the Real World for years.

It's BECOME his Main Business, though he still Trades Each day!  His Business is showing how to trade for 2hrs per Day and Make Money.  What you offer on here is advice on how to Make Money; you just don't seem to Profit from it.

I'm an Entrepreneur and have many skill sets.  In the past I have offered basic classes on Carpentry, and Photography as 2 examples.  To assume I have nothing to Sell of Value with regards to Information or teaching is narrow minded in an info rich world of commerce.

Revenue Streams.  Strings to Bow.  Change.  Add some or pick one.  

I can work a Day as a Carpenter fitting a kitchen and make let's say £200.  I can also put a class on in my local Institute on how to hang a door or put a shelf up and charge £30 each for an hour class.  Pro Rata I can make more money selling my knowledge and proving my skills than I can actually doing the work myself.

Selling of Info is not a new Idea.  Teaching of skills you have is not a new Idea.  Being good at something and NOT realising you can Capitalise on your skills and knowledge means you'll be forever Working.

I work toward a Passive Income.  Always.  If I have something to Sell, I will.  If I can make more money Pro Rata Selling my knowledge instead of actually Working, then I'll do that.  If I can generate 2k in one Day taking out 8 people and showing them how to use Off camera Flash, I will.   I can't make that money working as a Photographer in one day.


So, 24 hrs a Day, 7 Days per week, 365 Days per year.  What makes YOU the most money?

[nit2wynit]

21 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

I did actually and was plagued for months afterwards by adverts to join his 'pay for group' which seemed to be his main business. 

To finish.  

Trading is Stressful and comes with Risk, regardless of your percentage of success.  Selling what you know requires No Risk.

I know which is better for me.

 

[nit2wynit]

19 hours ago, dmedin said:

This was my breakout today - been watching it for ages and lost money shorting it not so long ago.  If I was in a better mood I would have done £5 per point.

You must be happy today??  Or disappointed you didn't place more stake on it.....Still, you're winning?  

[Caseynotes]

8 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

To finish.  

Trading is Stressful and comes with Risk, regardless of your percentage of success.  Selling what you know requires No Risk.

I know which is better for me.

 

I've had a number of different careers over the decades some of which were absolute money spinners and some that were an absolute joy but all of them took at least 5 years to really get on top of it.

Someone might be able to explain quite adequately how to perform brain surgery but if that's all you've got to go on you're going to kill quite a few patients before you get the hang of it yourself. But once you have got the hang of it is it really still all risk? If your trade stats tell you the averages are good are you really going to worry how any one particular trade does? The concern shifts to building account size and so enable greater position size rather than starting a spinoff business I would have thought.

[nit2wynit]

1 minute ago, Caseynotes said:

The concern shifts to building account size and so enable greater position size rather than starting a spinoff business I would have thought.

Despite his account size he has a Limit on Trade size or shares bought.  It's not an exponential risk.

Brain Surgery requires Practice and then Proof like anything else, so you're right.  you wouldn't simply watch a video then try it; why are you assuming trading breakouts is any different?  Warrior Trading offer a purpose built Trading Platform and Demo account with Mentors.  He also has a Brokerage account where Traders pay only $2 per trade.  You are advised the entire way.  Only when you have proved success on the Demo do you move to Live Trading.  The Chat room is there also.  Suggesting it's all Fake and just Making Money is well.....Is the Point, isn't it?  Why do Teachers exist at all in school in that case?  Why work for someone else if you can do it yourself.  I'm assuming you and others are hoping to gain some kind of Remuneration for your contributions here?  

You're dead right about Time.  But you're assuming a person starting from nothing; here we're standing on the shoulders of Giants; those that have gone before us.   Gained knowledge and experience in a digestable format.

We're not talking about Tools and Indicators and the entire world of Trading needing to be learned.  I believe they use only 2 or three tops, with the main emphasis on Chart reading;  where's it been, where's it going.  Can I get a few stops of movement?

Trading breakouts isn't Rocket Science, but still requires Chart knowledge.  Aiming for 1:1  or 1:2 PL is very doable.  Small Stops.  If you've got it wrong, you're out.  If you can get it right more than 50/50 you're OK.

Risky?  Every single thing in Life carries Risk.

[Caseynotes]

8 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Why do Teachers exist at all in school in that case?  Why work for someone else if you can do it yourself.  I'm assuming you and others are hoping to gain some kind of Remuneration for your contributions here?  

yes none of the aspects is rocket science, it's all 'doable', it's putting together the complete package that is inevitably  tailored to the individual that takes the time.

There are teachers because having done the work to learn some find they can make more money teaching than actually doing.

when you say am I hoping for some remuneration you surely don't mean a reward from IG for posting here on the forum do you? when I started posting it was with the hope of conversing with those of similar experience but it's mostly just pointing a long line of newbs in what I consider to be the right direction (ie away from simply blowing up their account in a matter of months, but admittedly with limited success).

[nit2wynit]

3 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

(ie away from simply blowing up their account in a matter of months, but admittedly with limited success).

I witnessed a conversation on here a while back discussing the remuneration possibility.  Maybe it's not your goal, so don't take it the wrong way if It's not.  My point was about Making Profit from knowledge.  Not specifically about you.

Unfortunately and as a Teacher (unofficially) an individuals Learning Curve involves Loss, Reflection, Adjust, Try again.

Some learn from reading, but the emotional aspect of Trading can't be read in a book.  It must be experienced.

I lost because I didn't stick to my plan;  Finding Breakouts.  1:1 PL.  I became confused, fearful and impatient, over cautious, hesitant etc.  But I've learned it, and at -£1400 over 6 months, it's still the cheapest 'Education' I've ever had.

Uni cost me £15k.  Restaurant cost me £50k.   £1400 is a year of car repairs and maintenance,  but I still have Rules and a Limit and this is why I've pulled out till I prove 1k up.

The rest of this week will be telling as I continue to use the Demo to find breakouts.  Yesterday could have been up £800 from a £38 risk.  Excited to see what today brings, but still a healthy Respect for any losses.  As of Monday I'm up £267 Down £110.

[Caseynotes]

7 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

I witnessed a conversation on here a while back discussing the remuneration possibility.  Maybe it's not your goal, so don't take it the wrong way if It's not.  My point was about Making Profit from knowledge.  Not specifically about you.

Unfortunately and as a Teacher (unofficially) an individuals Learning Curve involves Loss, Reflection, Adjust, Try again.

Some learn from reading, but the emotional aspect of Trading can't be read in a book.  It must be experienced.

I lost because I didn't stick to my plan;  Finding Breakouts.  1:1 PL.  I became confused, fearful and impatient, over cautious, hesitant etc.  But I've learned it, and at -£1400 over 6 months, it's still the cheapest 'Education' I've ever had.

Uni cost me £15k.  Restaurant cost me £50k.   £1400 is a year of car repairs and maintenance,  but I still have Rules and a Limit and this is why I've pulled out till I prove 1k up.

The rest of this week will be telling as I continue to use the Demo to find breakouts.  Yesterday could have been up £800 from a £38 risk.  Excited to see what today brings, but still a healthy Respect for any losses.  As of Monday I'm up £267 Down £110.

well good luck, what's on the watchlist today then?

[nit2wynit]

9 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

well good luck, what's on the watchlist today then?

I struggle to get one sorted until it opens at 2.30.  I use the 1st 10-15 mins to find what I can out of the thousands available.  I only need 3 to watch though.  I have a preliminary list of those available now but they're not suitable.  I'll also check the Watchlist from Warrior Trading at around 2.15 to see if I have access to them, and then look for the best setup that suit my account size.  However, I'm not bound by the same restrictions that Share dealers have re; Volume, Price etc.  My limit is the Spread and cost per point.  The mechanics are different as I'm sure you're aware.

As I did yesterday I'll show my Watchlist on here and any Success or Loss, then take note of any obvious mistakes I've made.  I'll will not to risk my entire profit from the week.  Max stop will be £50.

[dmedin]

1 hour ago, nit2wynit said:

Uni cost me £15k

Still paying mine off, 15 years later

Some people think it was wasted on me but I think it put the spirit of seeking knowledge in me ... plus, economics and econometrics were both quite similar to charting and finding trends

[dmedin]

Today: long on Apple.

Edited September 11, 2019 by dmedin

[nit2wynit]

6 minutes ago, dmedin said:

Today: long on Apple.

erm...Confused.com

Yesterday you said you'd have gone long on JD @ £5pp if you could afford it, meaning you had less than 1k.  To go small ppp on Apple you need £2200 Margin cover.? :O


Up today.  +£155 on yesterdays Stock of MallIncKrodt......Down £25.50 on Eros Inc.  plus a small loss of £2.40 on Maxar.   I relied heavily on Yesterdays Watchlist which I now regret but therein lieth the lesson; Patience.   Warrior Trading showed up Yuma which at my last look was up 130% but I can't trade it so defaulted.  Too eager, too soon.  

 

 

[dmedin]

I'm spread out over multiple things, overtrading again.  Can't help myself.

[nit2wynit]

3 minutes ago, dmedin said:

I'm spread out over multiple things, overtrading again.  Can't help myself.

Did you pull out of JD then for a profit?

[dmedin]

VMware looked a good buy on a March 2020 future as it fell a lot and seemed to be rebounding.