** Urgent: Dubious Tesla pricing **

[MarcBergh]

Dear community members,

I thought it only prudent to make other members aware of a few rather questionable & significant price drops that occurred on IG’s Tesla stock back on 17 & 19 August (pre-split).  

There may have been other examples of this occurrence on Tesla, or indeed other surging technology stocks, although the below examples are the ones I noticed & reported to IG.

The screen grab examples mentioned below are attached fyi.

1.      Monday 17/08- 9AM open. Price range showing a 17,649.50  point (11.80%) drop in price, which clearly didn't happen in the market. This price drop is also omitted from later versions of IG's Tesla screen, as can be seen on the previously mentioned 19 August screengrab, when looking at the 4 hour time frame window, there's no price drop to 14,8970?   

2.      Wednesday 19/08- As per the above example, another sharp and large movement down in price, again at the 9am open, see blue arrow. I unfortunately didn't highlight the candle to get the specifics, but looks in the region of ~5k points between highest/lowest. 

Both these price drops weren’t evident on my TradingView screen where I get a direct pre-market price feed from NASDAQ. Furthermore, both price drops were then omitted from IG’s screens soon after they occurred. Rather mysterious.

I wrote to IG asking for an explanation on these price drops, and the omission, where staff from Trading Services told me they were due to a “display error”, and that “The developers are currently working on the project however we don't have a date yet of when a fix will be available. We will inform you once the developers have discovered a solution.”

To be frank, I found these answers given by IG to be both inadequate & unacceptable. This is especially so given the fact these massive price drops didn’t actually happen in the market (NASDAQ), and were omitted by IG soon after they took place.   

As I stated in the below mail trail with IG, clearly if you were long Tesla you would have been stopped out unfairly, even with a very flexible stop order, potentially causing considerable financial loss.

Given the potential severity of the issue at hand, I would have thought this would be dealt with professionally & expeditiously by IG, which it hasn’t. Clearly this very skewed pricing wouldn’t fill IG customers with confidence going forward.

I still haven’t been given an update on the developer fix for these “display errors”….

Thoughts welcome, mail trail below with attachments.

Kind regards,

Marc.  

 

** Urgent: Tesla pricing **

 

 

 

 

 

<marcbergh@gmail.com>	Wed, 19 Aug, 15:30
to IG

"Hi all, 

 

For the past few days, namely on 17 August & today 19 August, there have been two very large downward price movements in Tesla's stock price at the 9am UK pre-market open. Said price movements then disappear when refreshing the IG screen a few minutes later.

 

I captured both via screen grab, with today's also including the above omission example when refreshing the screen. 

 

Please find attached 3 .JPG files:

 

1.   "IG Tesla Pricing- 19 August (spike down)"- as the file name suggests, the sharp and large movement down in price this morning at the 9am open, see blue arrow. I unfortunately didn't highlight the candle to get the specifics, but looks in the region of ~5k points between highest/lowest. 

2. "IG Tesla Pricing- 19 August (no spike down)"- the above large downward price movement has clearly disappeared from the screen, no trace of a candle wick at all?

3.  "IG Tesla Pricing- 17 August (spike down)"- similar example here on Monday 17/08- price range showing a 17,649.50 (11.80%) drop in price, which clearly didn't happen. This price drop is also omitted from later versions of IG's Tesla screen, as can be seen on the previously mentioned 19 August screengrab, when looking at the 4 hour time frame window, there's no price drop to 14,8970?

 

These questionable price drops look like a possible flash crash of sorts, although I get a direct feed from NASDAQ into my trading screen on TradingView where I manage my risk, and none of the aforementioned price drops are evident. 

 

Perhaps I have missed something here, but please provide an explanation as to how these prices were generated, and why they were later omitted. Clearly if you were long Tesla you would have been stopped out unfairly, even with a very flexible stop order. I'm wanting to trade Tesla going forward but this is not filling me with confidence. 

 

In case you need it, my account ID *****

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Kind regards,

Marc. "

 

The following day, I then received the below reply from Michael Ye in Trading Services... 

 

Re:** Urgent: Tesla pricing ** - INC0465098 

 

 

Inbox

x

 

 

 

helpdesk.uk@ig.com	20 Aug 2020, 04:30 (13 days ago)
to me

"Dear Mark,

Thanks for your detailed email.

Sorry to hear about your issues with our charts. This is a known issue and our developers are currently looking into this at high priority.

Trades are executed based on the market price, chart is indicative only and in this case a display error.

Case reference: INC0465098

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us. Alternatively, we've recently launched our new Help & Support site which gives you answers from our huge knowledge-base, online community, and education hub.

Regards,"

Michael Ye
Trading Services

IG

 

To which I replied the following.... 

20 Aug 2020, 11:33 (13 days ago)
to IG

"Hi Michael,

 

Thanks for your response. 

 

Trades may be executed based on the market price, but as you well know, risk is modelled, including stop losses, based on volatility/price action of the underlying asset. IG prices shown on the chart therefore directly impact this risk modelling, even if they are indicative. 

 

It could therefore be viewed as unacceptable market practice, for an FCA registered company, on more than one occasion, to have such a massive spread/gap between the prevailing market price & what IG screens are showing. It's highly probable that these "display errors" would directly and negatively impact any customers financially who are long a stock, in this case Tesla. 

 

Please provide an ETA for when your developers will have fixed said "display errors", and what controls are being put in place at IG to ensure this doesn't happen again. 

 

Kind regards,

Marc.  "

 

I then received the below reply from Anton Liebenberg in trading services.... 

 

Re: ** Urgent: Tesla pricing ** - INC0465098 / OTCPT-5728

 

 

Inbox

x

 

 

 

helpdesk.uk@ig.com	Thu, 20 Aug, 16:20 (13 days ago)
to me

 

 

"Dear Marc, Thanks for your email. The developers are currently working on the project however we don't have a date yet of when a fix will be available. We will inform you once the developers have discovered a solution. If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us." Regards, Anton Liebenberg Trading Services IG

 

[Caseynotes]

couple of points to note.

IG data is used to process accounts first and is then sent on to a third party and used to construct the charts, occasionally there may be a glitch in the chart building process causing a spike but usually does not affect your account at all and is redrawn fairly quickly or at least on next market open.

Secondly, if there ever is a problem with your actual account IG have a pretty good record of refunding any loses when reported judging by the years I've spent monitoring this forum.

[MarcBergh]

Casey thanks for your reply. 

When you say "IG data is used to process accounts first", what do you mean by that exactly? Would that be the prevailing market price that Michael @ IG refered to? 

If this is indeed a glitch in the chart building process, or a "display error" as IG states, and would in turn not affect your account at all, including in terms of your risk management (aka- stop loss), then IG should have stated that explicitly. They clearly left that crucial part out. As a trader you can only go by what price you see on the charts. 

Bottom line is it shouldn't take this long to sort this issue out & their comms was poor. I've worked for a number of Fintech firms and this is sub par.    

 

[dmedin]

38 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

IG have a pretty good record of refunding any loses when reported

I wonder how often people notice when someone goes wrong ...🙊

[IanPengilley]

Can anyone show me where the commission for TSLA trading is indicated?

I entered a trade inadvertantly and stopped it on - $2.24 loss; IG charged me $15  TWICE ??

 

I wrote to the helpdesk 3 days ago but nobody seems interested to answer.

 

 

[Caseynotes]

1 hour ago, MarcBergh said:

Casey thanks for your reply. 

When you say "IG data is used to process accounts first", what do you mean by that exactly? Would that be the prevailing market price that Michael @ IG refered to? 

If this is indeed a glitch in the chart building process, or a "display error" as IG states, and would in turn not affect your account at all, including in terms of your risk management (aka- stop loss), then IG should have stated that explicitly. They clearly left that crucial part out. As a trader you can only go by what price you see on the charts. 

Bottom line is it shouldn't take this long to sort this issue out & their comms was poor. I've worked for a number of Fintech firms and this is sub par.    

 

I have no direct link with IG or knowledge as to exactly how the system works but going by discussions on the forum over the years including input from IG staff IG's price data is directly linked to accounts and is also sent to the company that actually builds the charts which is IT-Finance. This means that any glitches appearing on the charts that are occur during the chart building process will not automatically adversely affect your account.

The 'prevailing market data' can only be IG's current best bid/offer prices at any particular time and is the data used to trigger account orders.

Occasional false spikes seem to occur on every broker's platform as is reported on social media and usually don't affect an account but sometimes the problem originates further up stream and can do, but any financial discrepancies that do occur and are reported to IG and here on the forum seem to get resolved fairly quickly.

 

[dmedin]

14 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

any financial discrepancies that do occur and are reported to IG

So any that we don't notice are silently swept under the rug  

[RajSher]

This is dubious and hopefully not a deliberate systematic foul play from IG?
I sometimes see discrepancies between two trading systems side by side. Will be more watchful.. I experienced something during a CFD transaction but did not have a screenshot. Resulted me into closing my position absorbing some loss. These kind of glitches reduce the confidence and transparency.

[rwi]

18 hours ago, MarcBergh said:

Dear community members,

I thought it only prudent to make other members aware of a few rather questionable & significant price drops that occurred on IG’s Tesla stock back on 17 & 19 August (pre-split).  

There may have been other examples of this occurrence on Tesla, or indeed other surging technology stocks, although the below examples are the ones I noticed & reported to IG.

The screen grab examples mentioned below are attached fyi.

1.      Monday 17/08- 9AM open. Price range showing a 17,649.50  point (11.80%) drop in price, which clearly didn't happen in the market. This price drop is also omitted from later versions of IG's Tesla screen, as can be seen on the previously mentioned 19 August screengrab, when looking at the 4 hour time frame window, there's no price drop to 14,8970?   

2.      Wednesday 19/08- As per the above example, another sharp and large movement down in price, again at the 9am open, see blue arrow. I unfortunately didn't highlight the candle to get the specifics, but looks in the region of ~5k points between highest/lowest. 

Both these price drops weren’t evident on my TradingView screen where I get a direct pre-market price feed from NASDAQ. Furthermore, both price drops were then omitted from IG’s screens soon after they occurred. Rather mysterious.

I wrote to IG asking for an explanation on these price drops, and the omission, where staff from Trading Services told me they were due to a “display error”, and that “The developers are currently working on the project however we don't have a date yet of when a fix will be available. We will inform you once the developers have discovered a solution.”

To be frank, I found these answers given by IG to be both inadequate & unacceptable. This is especially so given the fact these massive price drops didn’t actually happen in the market (NASDAQ), and were omitted by IG soon after they took place.   

As I stated in the below mail trail with IG, clearly if you were long Tesla you would have been stopped out unfairly, even with a very flexible stop order, potentially causing considerable financial loss.

Given the potential severity of the issue at hand, I would have thought this would be dealt with professionally & expeditiously by IG, which it hasn’t. Clearly this very skewed pricing wouldn’t fill IG customers with confidence going forward.

I still haven’t been given an update on the developer fix for these “display errors”….

Thoughts welcome, mail trail below with attachments.

Kind regards,

Marc.  

 

** Urgent: Tesla pricing **

 

 

 

 

 

<marcbergh@gmail.com>	Wed, 19 Aug, 15:30
to IG

"Hi all, 

 

For the past few days, namely on 17 August & today 19 August, there have been two very large downward price movements in Tesla's stock price at the 9am UK pre-market open. Said price movements then disappear when refreshing the IG screen a few minutes later.

 

I captured both via screen grab, with today's also including the above omission example when refreshing the screen. 

 

Please find attached 3 .JPG files:

 

1.   "IG Tesla Pricing- 19 August (spike down)"- as the file name suggests, the sharp and large movement down in price this morning at the 9am open, see blue arrow. I unfortunately didn't highlight the candle to get the specifics, but looks in the region of ~5k points between highest/lowest. 

2. "IG Tesla Pricing- 19 August (no spike down)"- the above large downward price movement has clearly disappeared from the screen, no trace of a candle wick at all?

3.  "IG Tesla Pricing- 17 August (spike down)"- similar example here on Monday 17/08- price range showing a 17,649.50 (11.80%) drop in price, which clearly didn't happen. This price drop is also omitted from later versions of IG's Tesla screen, as can be seen on the previously mentioned 19 August screengrab, when looking at the 4 hour time frame window, there's no price drop to 14,8970?

 

These questionable price drops look like a possible flash crash of sorts, although I get a direct feed from NASDAQ into my trading screen on TradingView where I manage my risk, and none of the aforementioned price drops are evident. 

 

Perhaps I have missed something here, but please provide an explanation as to how these prices were generated, and why they were later omitted. Clearly if you were long Tesla you would have been stopped out unfairly, even with a very flexible stop order. I'm wanting to trade Tesla going forward but this is not filling me with confidence. 

 

In case you need it, my account ID *****

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Kind regards,

Marc. "

 

The following day, I then received the below reply from Michael Ye in Trading Services... 

 

Re:** Urgent: Tesla pricing ** - INC0465098 

 

 

Inbox

x

 

 

 

helpdesk.uk@ig.com	20 Aug 2020, 04:30 (13 days ago)
to me

"Dear Mark,

Thanks for your detailed email.

Sorry to hear about your issues with our charts. This is a known issue and our developers are currently looking into this at high priority.

Trades are executed based on the market price, chart is indicative only and in this case a display error.

Case reference: INC0465098

If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us. Alternatively, we've recently launched our new Help & Support site which gives you answers from our huge knowledge-base, online community, and education hub.

Regards,"

Michael Ye
Trading Services

IG

 

To which I replied the following.... 

20 Aug 2020, 11:33 (13 days ago)
to IG

"Hi Michael,

 

Thanks for your response. 

 

Trades may be executed based on the market price, but as you well know, risk is modelled, including stop losses, based on volatility/price action of the underlying asset. IG prices shown on the chart therefore directly impact this risk modelling, even if they are indicative. 

 

It could therefore be viewed as unacceptable market practice, for an FCA registered company, on more than one occasion, to have such a massive spread/gap between the prevailing market price & what IG screens are showing. It's highly probable that these "display errors" would directly and negatively impact any customers financially who are long a stock, in this case Tesla. 

 

Please provide an ETA for when your developers will have fixed said "display errors", and what controls are being put in place at IG to ensure this doesn't happen again. 

 

Kind regards,

Marc.  "

 

I then received the below reply from Anton Liebenberg in trading services.... 

 

Re: ** Urgent: Tesla pricing ** - INC0465098 / OTCPT-5728

 

 

Inbox

x

 

 

 

helpdesk.uk@ig.com	Thu, 20 Aug, 16:20 (13 days ago)
to me

 

 

"Dear Marc, Thanks for your email. The developers are currently working on the project however we don't have a date yet of when a fix will be available. We will inform you once the developers have discovered a solution. If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us." Regards, Anton Liebenberg Trading Services IG

 

I have found this a lot with IG charts.

Should they offer Trading View or ProRealTime included in the IG trading platform package?

I'd certainly have much more confidence in trading and investing via IG if it did! Am I alone? I sincerely doubt it, there must be hundreds, thousands similarly affected, like you, and myself.

A simple case in point (there are hundreds and hundreds of these....)

ICDU

iShares S&P 500 Consumer Discretionary UCITS ETF USD

[Caseynotes]

11 minutes ago, rwi said:

I have found this a lot with IG charts.

Should they offer Trading View or ProRealTime included in the IG trading platform package?

I'd certainly have much more confidence in trading and investing via IG if it did! Am I alone? I sincerely doubt it, there must be hundreds, thousands similarly affected, like you, and myself.

yes, false spikes do occur on broker platforms and especially so on the demo but as said only very rarely affect actual live accounts.

PRT is available on IG though they are also associated with the chart build firm IT-Finance (as are many other brokers).

[rwi]

1 minute ago, Caseynotes said:

yes, false spikes do occur on broker platforms and especially so on the demo but as said only very rarely affect actual live accounts.

PRT is available on IG though they are also associated with the chart build firm IT-Finance (as are many other brokers).

Yes I saw your comments previously, which I noted. However, I do not agree that it is acceptable for a company like IG and it's aspirations see https://www.iggroup.com/about-us/who-we-are/our-purpose-and-values

It is also not 'cutiing edge like other competitors.

Sooner or later this late of Leadership in charting will become a 'tipping point'. It is merely a finance issue (i.e. management decision making flaw), which I believe they have got wrong. IG's global marketplace simply won't accept it for much longer, despite benign tolerance in home market. I reply merely to give some more credence to the idea. I have no particular wish to challenge your views, which are fine as they are.

I have paid for several hundred pounds with IG in the past of Prorealtime when I wasn't regualrly in the market or using an IG competitor as my main trading platform, yet had over £100k deposited with IG. Not good custoemr service - disrecpectful I'd call it. IG has to work harder. As a company with almost £3billion Market Cap it is simply 'poor performance' masking as something else. Stuart Wheeler, IG's founder, financier and political benefactor, 1935-2020, who died this year aged 85, was a spread betting pioneer. I just can't believe he'd be happy with the knowledge state of IG's customer services, and charting anomalies (whatever hollow excuses and denials are likely to follow)

https://www.ft.com/content/a54be868-232a-45d9-a545-6b7091e5d0ea
 

 

[dmedin]

27 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

only very rarely affect actual live accounts

🤔

[Caseynotes]

16 minutes ago, rwi said:

IG's founder, financier and political benefactor, 1935-2020, who died this year aged 85, was a spread betting pioneer. I just can't believe he'd be happy with the knowledge state of IG's customer services, and charting anomalies (whatever hollow excuses and denials are likely to follow)

yes the customer service has been garbage since the start of this 'everyone stay at home and save the nhs' covid farce but then again so has my bank's.

[Caseynotes]

8 minutes ago, dmedin said:

🤔

yes, the usual MO is to howl blue murder on the forum then note there's a complaints procedure, initiate the complaints procedure, then come back on the forum and say 'actually it's all sorted' or not bother and just quietly carry on trading with IG anyway.

In the last 4 years I've only heard of 2 that ended up taking their complaint to the FCA.

[Guest Bal]

This happens with Microsoft every day.

The following day, these spikes have disappeared.

 

[CharlotteIG]

On 03/09/2020 at 16:25, Guest Bal said:

This happens with Microsoft every day.

The following day, these spikes have disappeared.

 

Thanks for your post. 

Sometimes there are incorrect spikes on the platform. This can be down to quotes in the market that were not traded at. If the price isn't traded at we will not close positions off the price. Our technical team do then go and remove any incorrect pricing. 

All the best. 

[nit2wynit]

I seen this also and commented on a YT trading channel.  It also happened on Amazon @ $760.......

Oddly enough my IG isn't loading again!  and if it does the charts aren't loading.

Quick update, my Share Dealing platform has defaulted to the Classic again!

Edited September 8, 2020 by nit2wynit

[dmedin]

5 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

I seen this also and commented on a YT trading channel.  It also happened on Amazon @ $760.......

Oddly enough my IG isn't loading again!  and if it does the charts aren't loading.

Quick update, my Share Dealing platform has defaulted to the Classic again!

 

Oh, it isn't just me that took a shafting up the tailpipe

 

[nit2wynit]

Ah man I think there's something in the air.  I feel it in my bones.  I'm cashing my chips in and getting out of Vegas!

[nit2wynit]

hahaha, now my % has gone missing from my Portfolio stats.................................................Throws hands in the air!