Jump to content

Is spread betting for fools?

Recommended Posts

1 minute ago, dmedin said:

@Caseynotes

 

What do you prefer to use for trading?

MT4, lower latency, better indicators, downloaded onto pc, can run simulators, has built in trading performance metrics logging, ... just off the top of my head.

But it doesn't do stocks/shares though.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

If you had set the chart price to bid instead of mid you would see the whole spread on entry as the chart price would be 3282 + 18 spread to give entry price 3300.

regardless of what it is set to, I know what those numbers represent.  The Limit line is my Buy price.

I'm pretty sure the Gray area, as maybe confirmed also by Dmedin, is what's left of the Spread.

this explains why so many times in the past I've been prematurely Stopped Out.  I didn't allow enough room at the bottom for the Spread.  It's disappointing that this Area disappears when the trade is Live.

@Caseynotes I'm sure Time is very important, but with regards to Latency....How much time are we actually talking about.?

Edited by nit2wynit

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

BTW.  Pivot Points are a great Help :D

Glad to hear re pivot points, they need to be assessed for each market but they are so related to H4 and daily support and resistance levels they should be good for most.

The limit line is your take profit level, if you click and hold you can slide it as far up as you want.

The entry level is on the left column and will just say +/- the position size while the stop and limit above and below will say the amount to lose or gain.

This is basic stuff, you really should find the time to look at the academy :D

Share this post


Link to post
Guest gavguns
On 18/07/2019 at 15:48, dmedin said:

@nit2wynit

Sometimes I just wish someone would come along and put me out of my misery.

Look I'm no expert trader, but  @dmedin you do realise that IG's business profits from your money? Has it occurred to you that there might be a conflict of interest in also being involved in your education? I mean they generate HUGE profits, they must be terribly disappointed that their education arm has such a poor success rate... And as for their fundamental analysis, it's almost as if it's misleading... Nah, it couldn't be, could it? #doh #thinkaboutit 

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

The limit line is your take profit level, if you click and hold you can slide it as far up as you want.

The entry level is on the left column and will just say +/- the position size while the stop and limit above and below will say the amount to lose or gain.

You're kidding...Right??

I've been trading since Feb lol

I know what they mean lol

Share this post


Link to post

@Caseynotes 

I know you get confused as you post so much you lose track of whom you're talking with but yeah.....Basics :D

Thanks though

Share this post


Link to post

Its facts,its obvious lots of novice individual being tricked by it.

You must have capital of 50 -100K for a start,and trade INDEXES, like NIKKEI,DAX,DOW,S&P.

To have holding power is A MUST .

Personally i feel that equities moves not volatile,

Do remember the charges by providers like borrowing,funding,commission etc.,these will eat up your capital daily like termites,NO FREE LUNCH ,CFD are for hardcore punters.

All the best,for HARCORE punters.

I envy rogue trader called,LONDON WHALE.

Cheers

hart

 

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, nit2wynit said:

@Caseynotes 

I know you get confused as you post so much you lose track of whom you're talking with but yeah.....Basics :D

Thanks though

To make things a little clearer, when I said 'are you sure about this' what I really meant was that you are totally, utterly and completely wrong.

As the old saying goes there is nothing wrong with being wrong, it's the staying wrong that's the problem.

You need to look at my drawing on your chart pic again;

The 18 point spread is the 9 + 9 points either side of the chart price (which is set to mid) as I have drawn it. No, it's not 30 to 60 points away from the chart price in your shaded area below your stop loss. The stop loss is 34 points away from entry at 3300 for a long or 34 points away from 3282 for a short, the spread is already built into the stop loss.

LOL, as you say, you've been trading since Feb  and you thought the limit line was the entry line and you have no idea what the spread is or where to find it.

 yeah, basics.

I know you get confused as I have to post many corrections to your posts, what gets me though is that you always hold onto wrong for so long. And this must be the fifth or sixth time I've tried to help with one of your little 'misunderstandings', each time is meet with instant knee **** denial, in the meantime your account balance has gone from £2000 to £900. The clock is ticking down so probably best not to insult those who are trying to help :D

Share this post


Link to post

Wooooaaahhh.  Lost in Translation.  I didn't Insult you.  You recently got 'Confused' with me and the Dow or Dax......It was simply a nod to that.

I'm a grown man.  I'm not defensive, argumentative, sarcastic or a liar.  

 

But i'm afraid, You are Completely Wrong here. (I think!) The Limit Line IS my Buy in.!  It will change to either of the Buy or Sell price.  As I have it in the Mid position, it's simply changes either side of the Mid Price.  Therefore the Limit, if i don't set one, is the Buy Price.

Sorry bud, but as usual you've gone off on one and actually insulted me.

You are a character. :D

 

Edited by nit2wynit

Share this post


Link to post

@Caseynotes oh and btw, I've not gone from 2k to 900.

I had £1945.  I went down to £1437 and pulled out £400 to buy a bike.   On Friday last week I was down to £986, and took it back up to £1028.  Then went back down to £953.  I now have £953.


Previously in March I had £1400 and lost £400 over 3 weeks.  I pulled out 1k to Buy Pinterest.


 

Share this post


Link to post

@Caseynotes I refer you yourself back to the chart you edited.  The Limit IS my BUY in of 3300.  The Mid Price is as you've stated, i know this, and if I was Shorting the Limit line would be my Buy price at 3282.


I'm not completely certain of what you're actually pointing out.

I just want to know what the Gray area is.

So far Dmedin has come up with the simplest answer.  It appears to be 9 points-half the spread!


If there's another explanation i'd love to hear it.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post

Sorry, Edit above.  

8 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

So far Dmedin has come up with the simplest answer.  It appears to be 9 points-half the spread!

it appears to be 18pts.  The Entire Spread.

Share this post


Link to post

@dmedin @Caseynotes

It's possible the Minimum Stop changed as i was observing the chart.  On the example below, the same Gray area is present.  It's there to tell me that the minimum Stop is 20pts while I have it to 10.

Do you agree?

1049981625_grayarea.jpg.2a81b1a009777534306b390782df9a68.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, nit2wynit said:

@dmedin @Caseynotes

It's possible the Minimum Stop changed as i was observing the chart.  On the example below, the same Gray area is present.  It's there to tell me that the minimum Stop is 20pts while I have it to 10.

Do you agree?

1049981625_grayarea.jpg.2a81b1a009777534306b390782df9a68.jpg

Ok I see;

 So in this example you've posted above you have got your chart price line set to Ask instead of Mid, see it's the same as the buy price (top left).

Slide the Limit order (take profit) level down out of the way so you can see your entry level.

Your stop for the sell is 20 points above your entry level.

Now toggle your price setting from Ask to Bid, see the price line drops down to your sell entry level which is the same as the Sell price (top left) but the Stop and Limit levels don't change.

Now toggle the price to Mid and the price line moves to mid way between the Sell and Buy but again the Stop and Limit levels don't change.

So the shaded area covers the 20 point stop from the Ask price level while the actual Stop level will always be taken from the Entry level.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post

@Caseynotes the chart above was about the gray area, not the Mid Bid Ask position. 

I know what the Mid Bid and Ask price are.  I said earlier that the Limit Line was my Buy In price.  You said i was utterly completely wrong!  I am not.!

If I have no Limit amount set, the Limit Line is my Buy price, going Long or Short. 


The chart above is not set to Ask, it is set to Mid.  It's simply on Sell.  That's why there is no price showing.  The white box is the Mid price  This is what changing from Mid Bid Ask price does.  It highlights those prices.  The Limit line below the Mid price of is the Sell price buy point.

I only use the Mid price as it indicates clearly the amount of spread.  Remember Shares don't show Spread count.  It must be calculated.

Share this post


Link to post

Right, hopefully I've figured out the Gray area.

It's the chart moving after the trade has been placed............... i think.

Share this post


Link to post

 

11 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

@Caseynotes the chart above was about the gray area, not the Mid Bid Ask position. 

I know what the Mid Bid and Ask price are.  I said earlier that the Limit Line was my Buy In price.  You said i was utterly completely wrong!  I am not.!

If I have no Limit amount set, the Limit Line is my Buy price, going Long or Short. 


The chart above is not set to Ask, it is set to Mid.  It's simply on Sell.  That's why there is no price showing.  The white box is the Mid price  This is what changing from Mid Bid Ask price does.  It highlights those prices.  The Limit line below the Mid price of is the Sell price buy point.

I only use the Mid price as it indicates clearly the amount of spread.  Remember Shares don't show Spread count.  It must be calculated.

The shaded area has nothing to do with spread.

Move the Limit line out of the way so you can see the entry line.

The price level is the white box, the stop level is the red box, the limit level is the purple box and the entry level is the blue line.

On your picture the price (white box) was the same as the Buy price because it was set to Ask.

The shaded area covers the min stop position if the price is set to Ask but the actual stop level is always taken from the entry level.

 

 

image.thumb.png.553493e67ca299dc085360a695db9674.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Caseynotes said:

The shaded area has nothing to do with spread.

lol.  Sorry. my Bad!!!  The Stop, not the Spread :O

Share this post


Link to post

Casey it was not set to Ask!!!  I know you know your stuff, but you're mistaken.  See below.  The highlighted number is the Mid price showing.  The Red Limit Line below it is the Sell Price.  this is where i would place the trade.  as i have not altered the Limit, the Limit Line is the Sell Price i would go in at.

The Buy Price being 1244.8, 4 points above the Mid price! 8pt spread.

 

795542498_StopLimit.jpg.70f1d1e1e90ac495dff7b82c0fd4bc91.jpg

Edited by nit2wynit

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Casey it was not set to Ask!!!  I know you know your stuff, but you're mistaken.  See below.  The highlighted number is the Mid price showing.  The Red Limit Line below it is the Sell Price.  this is where i would place the trade.  as i have not altered the Limit, the Limit Line is the Sell Price i would go in at.

 

795542498_StopLimit.jpg.70f1d1e1e90ac495dff7b82c0fd4bc91.jpg

yes, in THIS example pictured above the price is set to Mid as is half way between the Sell and Buy as opposed to the previous picture which showed the price set to Ask as it matched the Buy price.

Each chart can be set individually so might be worth going back to the previous chart and check.

The Sell price is your Entry price level for a short which is covered over by the Limit line if no limit is set and the stop is set from the Entry level regardless of price being set to ask, bid or mid. 

Share this post


Link to post

Confirmed.

The Gray Area, happens in this instance:

If I place a trade.  Then go to place another trade, one or the other is shadowed under or over the previous trade.

Pretty sure that's it.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Caseynotes said:

yes, in THIS example pictured above the price is set to Mid as is half way between the Sell and Buy as opposed to the previous picture which showed the price set to Ask as it matched the Buy price.

Each chart can be set individually so might be worth going back to the previous chart and check.

The Sell price is your Entry price level for a short which is covered over by the Limit line if no limit is set and the stop is set from the Entry level regardless of price being set to ask, bid or mid. 

That's what I said.  My Limit is my Buy in :D

Share this post


Link to post
17 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

The limit line is your take profit level, if you click and hold you can slide it as far up as you want.

The entry level is on the left column and will just say +/- the position size while the stop and limit above and below will say the amount to lose or gain.

This is basic stuff, you really should find the time to look at the academy :D

This is what we've been going back and forth about @Caseynotes

Then I replied this:
 

14 hours ago, nit2wynit said:

You're kidding...Right??

I've been trading since Feb lol

I know what they mean lol

to which you replied this:

7 hours ago, Caseynotes said:

LOL, as you say, you've been trading since Feb  and you thought the limit line was the entry line and you have no idea what the spread is or where to find it.

Do you see the problem here?

The Limit Line IS my Buy In.

But I can see how you may have taken this too literally, that even if i set my Limit to 500, you must have thought i was saying 500 would be my Buy in.

I hope this is clear now.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, hart said:

Its facts,its obvious lots of novice individual being tricked by it.

You must have capital of 50 -100K for a start,and trade INDEXES, like NIKKEI,DAX,DOW,S&P.

To have holding power is A MUST .

 

 

 

That's an interesting perspective, and probably not far from the truth.  

I think it's possible to make money from a smaller balance, but not enough money to 'live on'.

I like the example of choosing whether to put £2000 into a savings accounts that pays out 2% interest or spread betting with it and trying to make a greater than 2% return over 12 months.  It sets expectations much lower and makes them more realistic.

Share this post


Link to post
19 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

This is what we've been going back and forth about @Caseynotes

Then I replied this:
 

to which you replied this:

Do you see the problem here?

The Limit Line IS my Buy In.

But I can see how you may have taken this too literally, that even if i set my Limit to 500, you must have thought i was saying 500 would be my Buy in.

I hope this is clear now.

Thanks

Of course I see what the problem is, I've been explaining it  to you for ages, go back over the thread and see for yourself .

 

 

Edited by Caseynotes

Share this post


Link to post
11 minutes ago, Caseynotes said:

Of course I see what the problem is, I've been explaining it  to you for ages, go back over the thread and see for yourself .

Wrong, and you seem to offer no humility at all.

I grow tired and weary.

Thanks.  I'll work the rest out on my own.

 

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, nit2wynit said:

Wrong, and you seem to offer no humility at all.

I grow tired and weary.

Thanks.  I'll work the rest out on my own.

 

What are you talking about I've just worked the whole thing out for you, it's all there in the thread. As I said, you should try reading it, instead of just firing out rapid replies and additions one after the other that miss the point or deliberately try to misdirect, it's obvious where the humility should be coming from.

Share this post


Link to post

This is literally the last i will say on it.

You scoffed and lol'd once again about my being wrong about my Limit being the Buy price.  You clearly confused yourself about which chart and what point was being made.  You create another short story about how silly I am and how you pointed out the Academy 2 months ago etc.  You think I don't have access to the internet Casey?  You realise there are thousands of pages to Link to for info on What is Spread betting etc.  The market, Lessons, charts Instruments.  Everything you know, you acquired over time.

You're arrogant, Sarcastic, and offer rhetoric that can be easily found by typing it into Google.

You may have a lot of knowledge on the subject, but a teacher you are not.

Who fails first?  The Teacher or the Student?

What is it you think you worked out???????????????

I asked what the Gray area was.  You said you didn't know.  I've figured it out and told you.  You've gone on and on about Mid Ask and Bid prices.  I never asked you!

I told you I knew and you lol'd, and referenced a mute point that was never asked!


17 hours or more later, still going on about Mid and Bid....I know what they are.  I know the spread.  I now I know what the Gray area is.

I've seen this approach from you with other people.

It's bad taste.


If you really want to help, use 1k find a trade, and Live stream your success of it. 

I told you my Limit was the Buy price.  you said i was wrong.  You were wrong.



Have a  great Day. :D

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Member Statistics

    • Total Topics
      11,907
    • Total Posts
      60,288
    • Total Members
      80,182
    Newest Member
    DuongTuan
    Joined 08/08/20 15:15
  • Posts

    • 1) It would be really helpful to be able to change a stop loss from normal to guaranteed stop in the online trading platform. Currently we can only do that on the mobile app which is ridiculous because the online trading platform should be having more features than the mobile app. 2) Allow us to set limit (take profit) for partial position size. Example if I buy 5 contracts of AUD/USD at 0.7150. I would like the option to be able to set take profit for 3 contracts at 0.7170 and 2 contracts at 0.7190.   
    • Hi Folks, The platform advertises that you need to place three or more trades in the previous month to avail of the free trading on US stocks (no $15 commission) for the subsequent month. However, even with that commission fee gone you're going to have to pay IG for the currency conversion each time. You're going back and forth between buying and selling, GBP to USD to GBP ...this will equate to a lot of money. So, you've realised the above and to avoid this really ridiculous and expensive merry-go-round you turn on multi-currency feature, right? In your head you think:   "I want to exclusively trade US stocks, I've waited one month (you'd have rathered to just pay IG and not need to wait), made more than three trades on that currency merry-go-round, I am happy to pay the reasonable quarterly fee to IG from here on in and keep the account as USD while availing of their most advertised feature, the commission free trading on US stock market". The new month arrives and you can have a great time trading on the US stock market with your dollar that doesn't keep eating away at any trade profits with each buy and sell. However, the next month arrives and menacing commission fee is back! But you traded at least three times last month, what gives? Ah! But you used the multicurrency feature, and this means on the subsequent month you will not be eligible for commission free trading. You're back to square one. Your choice is to either pay IG the fee for every conversion in every trade or prevent this and keep the respective currency but also you must pay IG a commission.    Anyone else experience this? I'm hoping I'm completely wrong, but contacting the helpdesk seems to confirm this ...
    • IG need to provide a stock screener, live scanner for volume/price movement, pre-market data,  and rapid execution for private traders and rebate fees for trading view as they do for PRT, with traders who trade frequently. One can be ambitious and ask IG to provide a free platform like thinkorswim as Ameritrade does with current news stream  - again a free rebate for access to Benziga or similar with rebates linked to the amount of trades.  The money spent on IG TV perhaps can be spent somewhere else towards provision of some free resources to private traders/investors.  The IG tv is a serious issue - do IG really think that IG TV add any value?  Access to financial publications/sites might be a better thing.  The effort of IG to provide its own academy, advice etc is and always will probably a poor quality duplication.  Please learn/borrow from American brokers and now that their commission charges are Zero.  PRT - Can that be downloadable.  The web based form just slows everything down and very clunky and the charts are not elegant at all.  They have a community and they do develop or help develop some strategies. We do not want to lose them. But a live screener /scanner please.  I just realised that I do not even know if IF IT team even reads these comments or prioritise any of the suggestions. Please get rid of your IG TV investment, it is very annoying. And yes VWAP/anchored VWAP please on the charts. Give the private investors some of the rebates too. Is Charlotte, finally providing our redemption by talking these to the right eyes and ears! Overall, IG really is not that bad given others at least for UK investors. Perhaps just a less spread and less of that dreaded, sudden declaration that this stock is only for close and you can not open new position. I think that and the liquidity  excuse is lame unless IG is beholden to a particular market maker or IG somehow gets it in a very large position by itself.
×
×