Is spread betting for fools?

[DSchenk]

Mix of ProRealTime and scanner on https://www.trade-ideas.com/ 

Think US open is too dangerous for me though. APOP just almost blew my account  

[nit2wynit]

4 minutes ago, DSchenk said:

Mix of ProRealTime and scanner on https://www.trade-ideas.com/ 

Think US open is too dangerous for me though. APOP just almost blew my account  

Danger is in Risk.  How can you blow your account with Stops in place? :O

[DSchenk]

Stops are almost useless in these momentum trades.

APOP got rejected at $4 and flushed down to $3.75 in mere seconds - whopp 25% of your account gone

TEUM would've been a good trade though - if we would've known  

[nit2wynit]

So far the results are similar to all other days, but what is obvious is that choosing stock based on only 1% gap provides little afterward and usually Retrace within 5-10 mins.  So this means I need to be in right off the bell and out within 5 mins to take porfit.  

As you said yesterday the Spread vs % moved isn't big enough to reach potential.  This is likely why Ross always goes for 5% or more as his own backtesting said his successes were a lot less on stock below 5%

[nit2wynit]

4 minutes ago, DSchenk said:

Stops are almost useless in these momentum trades.

APOP got rejected at $4 and flushed down to $3.75 in mere seconds - whopp 25% of your account gone

TEUM would've been a good trade though - if we would've known  

I'm not sure we're playing the same game bud.  You can't Buy right off the Bell.  **** flies up and down.  you still need to wait for the 1st Pullback on 1M or 5M.  I'm only going in off the Bell to take notes.

my max risk on any one Trade is £100, but if I'm watching it I won't let it go past £50 or 5-10% 

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by nit2wynit

[DSchenk]

You're not playing Ross Cameron's game then - almost certain he's trading APOP today as well and might get burned on the same $4 rejection - sounds like a classic Ross move ("here I added to my position for the break of $4 - ah **** it") - let's see later when his market recap comes out  

I'm gonna head to Demo now and start searching for a job - don't think I can afford this any longer

[nit2wynit]

2 minutes ago, DSchenk said:

You're not playing Ross Cameron's game then - almost certain he's trading APOP today as well and might get burned on the same $4 rejection - sounds like a classic Ross move ("here I added to my position for the break of $4 - ah **** it") - let's see later when his market recap comes out  

I'm gonna head to Demo now and start searching for a job - don't think I can afford this any longer

OH lol.

I'm testing the market at the minute.  Ross doesn't Buy off the Bell.  He still has his set In and Out markers.  What i mean by Off the Bell, is no-one shuold go in Blind on Faith until the direction is proven.  1st pullback.  Not off the bell.

Paypal going like a Yoyo.  See you in the Job Queue

[nit2wynit]

So as I said going from only 1% Gap isn't do-able Unless you're ready to go In and Out within about 5 mins.  There's just not enough scope for a 2nd or 3rd Spike.  I can work, but you need to be in fro the Bell.  Too risky.

Tomorrow I'll be back to only 5% or more of stock less than £100.  I might even make it £50 or less.

 

11 trades, 4 Wins, 7 Losses.   The £56 Win is from Yesterday's experiment.  I missed market close.  It was actually up £120 at market open but was concentrating on the new list.  The amount doesn't matter.  It went Down.


Back to what Ross is doing or more specifically what he said to me personally.  With only 1k, you need to be Bold, be Brave but also be as certain as you can in your Trade choice.  He said to risk No-More than 10% with 1k.  It's important to understand that Risk isn't an amount but a % or Points moved in relation to the Pullback.  It just happens to represent a Cost.  What I mean is, if It's only likely to move 20 points and the Pull Back is 5 points then your Risk or Stop should be literally below the Pullback + Spread but should never be more than 10% of your account size.  So unsure of how you nearly lost 25%.

I'll take a look at the chart to see where you're coming from.

 

 

[nit2wynit]

Every day this happens!

 

 

[DSchenk]

2 hours ago, nit2wynit said:

He said to risk No-More than 10% with 1k

Probably overdone it with the position size. Went as high as margin allowed it. £3 per point. On a 25 point drop in a few seconds that's £75 right there (25% of £300)

Question is now, what shall be the plan going forwards? Figure it all out on Demo first and have then another try on live? Got almost £2k of losses now over the past 1.5 years. (Thinking about it this way, I certainly spent more money on even stupider stuff than spread betting  ) 

 

[nit2wynit]

37 minutes ago, DSchenk said:

Probably overdone it with the position size. Went as high as margin allowed it. £3 per point. On a 25 point drop in a few seconds that's £75 right there (25% of £300)

Question is now, what shall be the plan going forwards? Figure it all out on Demo first and have then another try on live? Got almost £2k of losses now over the past 1.5 years. (Thinking about it this way, I certainly spent more money on even stupider stuff than spread betting  ) 

 

Christ man, I lost £1400 in  WEEK!  I just happened to spread it over 4 months lol.  My biggest lost was £300 in one day over 10 trades.  I was a lunatic.

Needs a fresh approach.

Edited October 24, 2019 by nit2wynit

[DSchenk]

Well, it's all about how much you lose vs your net worth.

My very own Dad actually told me the other day, that he tried day- trading back in the days as well and lost £100k on it! But for him that's only a few % of his net-worth, so no big deal.
All relative  

 

On a side note. Ross trade recap for yesterday went exactly as I  predicted with APOP. Check it out: https://youtu.be/C8r31NF6ims 

At about minute 3.50 he says: "I started with 9000 shares, then added 6000 for the break of 4. I thought it would go right to 4.10 / 4.20."  
Told you, classic Ross trade. Luckily for him, he managed to get out at 4.03. That was also a level I thought for a split second to close my trade, but then I didn't. That's the difference between a trader with little experience vs Ross with years of experience I guess.

 

 

[DSchenk]

Good news. Ross from Warrior Trading is starting over again. With a small account challenge. Starting with $500 !!!

His last small account challenge started about 3 years ago, also with around $500 and he turned it into a million $ within bit over 2 years.

Might be the perfect time to also create a small account and trade alongside him. Should be a good learning experience comparing on a daily basis what trades you took vs him, your profits vs his, etc.

Also for the doubters, like @dmedin who believe it's not even possible to grow a small account to a million - if Ross can pull it off twice within a 5 years timeframe - then everyone can do it. No doubt about it. All you need is passion for the game, concentration, resilience and the right mindset to pull it off.

I'm gonna set-up my demo account today (I'm actually out of cash - wasn't joking earlier) and will focus on US market open for the next couple of weeks. No more indices, commodities, etc. Not sure yet if I'm also gonna give UK market open another try. I guess I got to do something in the morning as well.
If I manage to grow the demo account consistently over a period of 4 weeks, then I'm gonna go back to live.

 

Who else is in giving the small account challenge a try? @nit2wynit, @dmedin, @Mercury, @Caseynotes, @TrendFollower, @elle ...

 

 

[Mercury]

Err, day trading?  No thanks!

His roller coaster can be smoothed out if he switches to longer term trading.  Day trading is a roller coaster, that's part of that game, especially intra-day.

He is right about his emotional pressures, it is because he is over trading (too many traders seeking to generate massive hits in one go).  He is wrong that the way to address this is to go back to a small account as he will not have addressed his underlying emotional issues and trading errors, they will emerge again if he is successful (i.e. his account grows).  In the end trading is about accumulating wealth over time not about generating a steady income.  The opportunities the markets offer are lumpy so you have to be ready to take advantage when they are offered.  A big part of trading successfully is to not trade, most of the time.

 

[Mercury]

I should add, it seems like this guy has a poor money management regime in this system if he is taking too much one way exposure.  My skeptical side thinks this is a mechanism to suck in more followers, although in fairness I do not know if he has a monetisation model for his followers or not, maybe this is just his way of achieving external validation...

[Caseynotes]

26 minutes ago, DSchenk said:

Who else is in giving the small account challenge a try? @nit2wynit, @dmedin, @Mercury, @Caseynotes, @TrendFollower, @elle ...

Ross starting over, does this mean he is going to give up all the expensive subscriptions as well? As pointed out in early Sept from vid posted on this thread Ross explains he is paying $250 a day for his direct market access platform and high speed connections which doesn't include the commissions on his trades. Anyone trying to copy may struggle to keep up.

 

[DSchenk]

He mentioned he's gonna make a video shortly explaining what costs he is occurring with the small account. He obviously needs to use a different broker than his usual one, cause he needs to work around the PDT rule in the US (until his account has reached £25k). So he will need to use an offshore broker rather than a US one. 

 

Btw, just started a new thread about this: https://community.ig.com/forums/topic/7773-small-account-challenge-aka-warrior-trading-strategy/

 

[phillo]

1 hour ago, DSchenk said:

Good news. Ross from Warrior Trading is starting over again. With a small account challenge. Starting with $500 !!!

His last small account challenge started about 3 years ago, also with around $500 and he turned it into a million $ within bit over 2 years.

Might be the perfect time to also create a small account and trade alongside him. Should be a good learning experience comparing on a daily basis what trades you took vs him, your profits vs his, etc.

Also for the doubters, like @dmedin who believe it's not even possible to grow a small account to a million - if Ross can pull it off twice within a 5 years timeframe - then everyone can do it. No doubt about it. All you need is passion for the game, concentration, resilience and the right mindset to pull it off.

I'm gonna set-up my demo account today (I'm actually out of cash - wasn't joking earlier) and will focus on US market open for the next couple of weeks. No more indices, commodities, etc. Not sure yet if I'm also gonna give UK market open another try. I guess I got to do something in the morning as well.
If I manage to grow the demo account consistently over a period of 4 weeks, then I'm gonna go back to live.

 

Who else is in giving the small account challenge a try? @nit2wynit, @dmedin, @Mercury, @Caseynotes, @TrendFollower, @elle ...

 

 

Should be fun, although it's sometimes tricky to precisely follow someone else's  day trades

[nit2wynit]

It won't be entirely possible to trade along side as a lot of the shares he Trades aren't available to us on SB with IG.  Buuut. some of them are, so it's all to play for.

I've grown my account from £1000 to roughly £1750 trading breakouts over 1 week.  Sure it was the Demo but it's real enough to me.  I only place maybe 2 trades per day at Market Open.  If they Fail i wait till the next day.  The hardest part, as we've discovered is finding them before the bell at 2.30
Didn't trade today.  Been cooking.

Edited October 25, 2019 by nit2wynit

[dmedin]

On 25/10/2019 at 10:45, DSchenk said:

Good news. Ross from Warrior Trading is starting over again. With a small account challenge. Starting with $500 !!!

His last small account challenge started about 3 years ago, also with around $500 and he turned it into a million $ within bit over 2 years.

Might be the perfect time to also create a small account and trade alongside him. Should be a good learning experience comparing on a daily basis what trades you took vs him, your profits vs his, etc.

Also for the doubters, like @dmedin who believe it's not even possible to grow a small account to a million - if Ross can pull it off twice within a 5 years timeframe - then everyone can do it. No doubt about it. All you need is passion for the game, concentration, resilience and the right mindset to pull it off.

I'm gonna set-up my demo account today (I'm actually out of cash - wasn't joking earlier) and will focus on US market open for the next couple of weeks. No more indices, commodities, etc. Not sure yet if I'm also gonna give UK market open another try. I guess I got to do something in the morning as well.
If I manage to grow the demo account consistently over a period of 4 weeks, then I'm gonna go back to live.

 

Who else is in giving the small account challenge a try? @nit2wynit, @dmedin, @Mercury, @Caseynotes, @TrendFollower, @elle ...

 

 

 

 

I found his video a bit offputting where he's talking about how much money he makes and losses as if it's nothing.  I was hoping to see pure technical trading, the actual 'money shot' and not the 'fluffing'. 

 

[nit2wynit]

On 26/10/2019 at 11:07, dmedin said:

I found his video a bit offputting where he's talking about how much money he makes and losses as if it's nothing.  I was hoping to see pure technical trading, the actual 'money shot' and not the 'fluffing'. 

the difference is he started with less than $600 and turned it into 1 Mil Live and proved it every day.

He'll be the first to say he doesn't win Every time.  He claims 70-80% success rate, overall.  Risking 20k on a trade and it dropping a few points is going to come with a significant loss, but only relatively.

His Transparency suggests you've got to know what you're doing, but even then, you will Definitely Lose at times.  It's a Statistical Certainty.

It's supposed to sound like it's Nothing.  It's the mastering of emotions that allows him to trade confidently.

[dmedin]

2 hours ago, nit2wynit said:

the difference is he started with less than $600 and turned it into 1 Mil Live and proved it every day.

Did he actually prove it?  Even if he did, he's one in a million (or one in ten million) - the stats prove it.

[DSchenk]

Almost everything that makes you a million bucks is  one in a million or worse.

• Found a business and grow it to a million bucks profit per year - 9 out of 10 start-ups fail in the first year. Only few make it to 7 figures
• Work in a corporate environment and work yourself up the ladder until you earn 1 million per year - chances are extremely thin - Only members of the C-Level suite earn that kind of money and the average time until you get there is probably 20 years or more
• Invest for the longterm until your portfolio reaches 1 million - will take a long time depending on with how much you start
• Try to marry into a rich family - good luck finding someone - chances, less than 1 in a million
• Wait for your elders to decease so that you can inherit their million bucks - have fun waiting until your 50, the average age where you inherit
• Winning the lottery - chance less than 1 in 10 million

Considering all of this, day trading doesn't seem to be too far off. And the best thing is you can give it a try while you're exploring one of the other options above as a fallback.

[dmedin]

@DSchenk Where are you, old bean?

 

I was looking through my losses today (even although I've been doing better in recent weeks).  I sighed and said to myself, 'This just isn't going to work.  But I'm going to keep trying it anyway.'

Wish I could find a bridge to jump off.

 

[dmedin]

Been profitable for the last two weeks 🥳 Go on my son 🐴

[DSchenk]

Good man @dmedin. Live or demo?

How's @nit2wynit doing?

From next week I'm gonna jump back into the small account challenge on Demo again. Not worth doing it here in SEA, cause US market open is too late. Not having the head to trade at like 21.30 at night.

Think my plan is gonna be to grow to £1000 with the initial £500, then try the same on live.
If it's not working out, might switch solely to long term investing, trend following, buying the dip in blue-chips, etc.
Smaller returns, but at least not losing cash like in day trading, haha

[dmedin]

@DSchenk  Excellent!  Welcome back!  I loved the work you were doing.  Cleverer than me   I only trade with real money!😁

[CharlotteIG]

4 hours ago, DSchenk said:

Good man @dmedin. Live or demo?

How's @nit2wynit doing?

From next week I'm gonna jump back into the small account challenge on Demo again. Not worth doing it here in SEA, cause US market open is too late. Not having the head to trade at like 21.30 at night.

Think my plan is gonna be to grow to £1000 with the initial £500, then try the same on live.
If it's not working out, might switch solely to long term investing, trend following, buying the dip in blue-chips, etc.
Smaller returns, but at least not losing cash like in day trading, haha

Looking forward to your finding. 

Keep us updated @DSchenk 😁

[nit2wynit]

10 hours ago, DSchenk said:

Good man @dmedin. Live or demo?

How's @nit2wynit doing?

From next week I'm gonna jump back into the small account challenge on Demo again. Not worth doing it here in SEA, cause US market open is too late. Not having the head to trade at like 21.30 at night.

Think my plan is gonna be to grow to £1000 with the initial £500, then try the same on live.
If it's not working out, might switch solely to long term investing, trend following, buying the dip in blue-chips, etc.
Smaller returns, but at least not losing cash like in day trading, haha

Check your idea there bud.  It took me 2 days to make £500 with £500.  Not enough time to prive it all.  I grew 3500 to £1250 in 4 days.  But I've decided to go right down to the minimum account size of £250 or £500 I'm not fully sure yet (Demo) and grow it to £5k.  I want at least 20 trades proven before i go live again.

Missed it again today.  Too late to do any research.  I'll get the charts up and see what happens

[nit2wynit]

There's one in the bag.  Clovis Oncology.  +£80 in 5 seconds.  £499 Margin.  £57 Stop at R1

 

Done for now. 

 

Edit:  Oops, Slippage.  £89

Edited November 19, 2019 by nit2wynit